Forged!?!
More than six weeks ago, an opposition research staffer for the Democratic National Committee received documents purportedly written by President George W. Bush’s Texas Air National Guard squadron commander, the late Col. Jerry Killian. The oppo researcher claimed the source was “a retired military officer.” .
Sounds to me like CBS got snookered. They were so fast out of the gate with these papers – that they failed to stop and check, and double check, the authenticity of them. Now they have to go back and do the double checking – - after they’ve already aired the program. If they had fully checked out the documents, they would not have to be squirming right now. Regardless of the outcome they look bad.
Camp Kerry had the documents for six weeks to verify the authenticity yet passed it on to CBS to do the fact checking without telling them of their doubts. CBS runs with it claiming that they did in fact do the checking. These stories both stink. Could there be some collusion going on or are the producers at CBS very stupid or extremely biased or both.
This one is going to be BAD for Kerry when these documents are proven as the fakes that they are. I watched a Dem. strategist on Fox this morning who was trying to answer for this issue – - in the end, after much questioning, he said, “Hey – I’m trying to save my party, here!”
Lovely.
CBS NEWS executives have launched an internal investigation into whether its premiere news program 60 MINUTES aired fabricated documents relating to Bush’s National Guard service, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.
“The reputation and integrity of the entire news division is at stake, if we are in error, it will be corrected,” a top CBS source explained late Thursday.
The source, who asked not to be named, described CBSNEWS anchor and 60 MINUTES correspondent Dan Rather as being privately “shell-shocked” by the increasing likelihood that the documents in question were fraudulent.
Rather, who anchored the segment presenting new information on the president’s military service, will personally correct the record on-air, if need be, the source explained from New York.
Didn’t everyone stop questioning Rather’s bias when he went over to Iraq to interview Saddam Hussein?
Other sources of interest:
CBS’s Big Blunder
Son of Late Officer Questions Bush Memos
False Documentation?
The CBS News Story That Started It All
September 10, 2004 - 10:35 AM on September 10th, 2004
Some people here will echo the Big Lies told by the Democrats until the day they die. Raines was kicked out at the Times for Jayson Blair. Rather should be shown the door by CBS.
September 10, 2004 - 12:09 PM on September 10th, 2004
Farrell C. Shiver, a forensic document examiner based in Georgia who said he was a Republican, said the superscript “th’s” throughout the memos were “something you would expect to find being done with a computer” and were “not consistent with something that you would expect to find from someone typing a document; they used typewriters in that particular time.”
Mr. Shiver also said he was suspicious of the spacing in the memos and the curves in their apostrophes.
But he said that while the font seemed unusual for the period, “that does not prove that the documents are not genuine
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/10/politics/campaign/10guard.html
what would it mean, if you have a moment of objectivity, if this crap were genuine?
best
September 10, 2004 - 12:24 PM on September 10th, 2004
shiloh, if you had done your homework, you would have known that there is an entire transcript of an interview with Farrel Shiver at http://www.HughHewitt.com where Shiver doesn’t give any credibility to the memos being genuine. In fact if he had been asked by CBS, Shiver would have told them not to use the memos in the story because Shiver thought that it was more than 90% likely that these memos were fakes made on a modern word processor.
Dishonest shiloh strikes out again.
September 10, 2004 - 12:33 PM on September 10th, 2004
PCD- why would we even waste our time with the “what if it were”, when we are faced with false documents. Obviously CBS is a tad worried about this, and I agree that it is time to retire Dan.:roll:
September 10, 2004 - 12:35 PM on September 10th, 2004
Peejz, because propagandists like shiloh will use an unchallenged “what if” as proof his lies are true, and then spread them on to the ignorant and lazy who don’t research things for themselves.
September 10, 2004 - 12:39 PM on September 10th, 2004
Let’s see. Dan Rather headlines a fundraiser in Travis County Texas put on by Ben Barnes and Dan’s daughter. Rather puts on Barnes who is contradicting Barnes’ own sworn under oath testimony accompanied by fake documents to support Barnes’ changed testimony.
Only shiloh and canuck believe that Rather, Barnes and CBS are telling the truth and that the memos are authentic. Even Terry McAuliffe is running away from this debacle claiming Karl Rove set up the Democrats on this.
September 10, 2004 - 12:42 PM on September 10th, 2004
you people are simply mad.
illogically so. befuddlement at your blind certainties is a poor description of how many times my head shakes in wonderment at the things i’m hearing. your fuhrer, um, President is not the perfect man – he’s an alcholic with an arrest record.
or is that propaganda, too?
September 10, 2004 - 12:43 PM on September 10th, 2004
this Presidency and administration is an Anatomy of a Forgery.
September 10, 2004 - 12:45 PM on September 10th, 2004
No, “Anatomy of a Forgery” would be a perfect title for a biography of Kerry. His whole life is a forgery.
September 10, 2004 - 12:58 PM on September 10th, 2004
You’ve got that right:!:
September 10, 2004 - 01:03 PM on September 10th, 2004
A post from the Viking Pundit:
The facts on the fax – from ABC News
“These documents do not appear to have been the result of technology that was available in 1972 and 1973,” said Bill Flynn, one of country’s top authorities on document authentication. “The cumulative evidence that’s available … indicates that these documents were produced on a computer, not a typewriter:” Among the points Flynn and other experts noted:
1.) The memos were written using a proportional typeface, where letters take up variable space according to their size, rather than fixed-pitch typeface used on typewriters, where each letter is allotted the same space. Proportional typefaces are available only on computers or on very high-end typewriters that were unlikely to be used by the National Guard.
2.) The memos include superscript, i.e. the “th” in “187th” appears above the line in a smaller font. Superscript was not available on typewriters.
3.) The memos included “curly” apostrophes rather than straight apostrophes found on typewriters.
4.) The font used in the memos is Times Roman, which was in use for printing but not in typewriters. The Haas Atlas — the bible of fonts — does not list Times Roman as an available font for typewriters.
5.) The vertical spacing used in the memos, measured at 13 points, was not available in typewriters, and only became possible with the advent of computers.
CBS has no choice: they must reveal the source of these (apparently) forged documents.
Who is absolutely mad? Why shiloh and canuck for beliving the memos are real and that the content of the memos are true.
September 10, 2004 - 01:23 PM on September 10th, 2004
PCD- When all is said and done, Rather may not be the only one out of a job on this one. They have been losing market share for at least a year(news division). This is just not good and some stockholders may have a few choice words for them.
September 10, 2004 - 01:26 PM on September 10th, 2004
Peejz, I remember back when the news division was expected to show a profit or else. Dan Rather went to the print press and whined that the news division should not be accountable to the accountants or the shareholders.
September 10, 2004 - 01:39 PM on September 10th, 2004
In 1988, Rather yelled at George H.W. Bush during an interview and I thought THAT was a low point in his career…Rather is such a Liberal and he has shown he cannot give any REP a fair shake..
September 10, 2004 - 01:56 PM on September 10th, 2004
in reply to shiloh,
“your fuhrer, um, President is not the perfect man”…..
your fuhrer!? Are you so full of hate and self loathing that you compare President Bush with Hitler? Is this your idea of political satire? I have heard more concise thoughts arise out of the mouths of playground bullies. Maybe this is your attempt at humor? Don’t quit your day job (if indeed you work instead of leeching off the hard earned money of true Americans, like so many of your socialist Comrades) You are right when you say Bush is not perfect for no man is, yet without the spirit of America striving to make the world a just place, you could be living under the rule of a fuhrer. Think about what you are actually preaching. Sit back and think about the rhetoric that spews from your lips. I feel sorry for you because you are either too dense to see the truth or willingly ignore it. Either way, you lose and that must be a hard pill to swallow.
Millions of persons were destroyed in concentration camps, many of which were equipped with gas chambers for the extermination of Jews, Roma (Gypsies), and members of other ethnic or religious groups. Under the slave-labor policy of the German government, at least 5 million persons had been forcibly deported from their homes to Germany. Many of them died because of inhuman treatment. A tribunal also found that atrocities had been committed on a large scale and as a matter of official policy.
Do us all a favor shiloh, get off the computer, get off your ass, get a job, and contribute to society instead of trying to drag it down. I understand that in your sick mind “equality” means everybody being a loser like you, but for once try to realize that you are not doomed to ineptitude, you are not forced into your mediocrity, realize that the great thing about America is that you can rise up, prosper, and be happy. Bush is doing the best he cab to insure that we have the freedom to do just that and you of all people should thank him!
September 10, 2004 - 02:03 PM on September 10th, 2004
Does that mean that, on the opposite end of the coin, there are fans of Michael Moore with a “moment of objectivity” who will actually acknowledge that he has made some of his own stuff up for his own benefit?
I have a hard time with people who, on the one hand, encourage us to consistently question sources, yet when we do, as we are doing now, we are met with phrases like, “what would it mean, if you have a moment of objectivity, if this crap were genuine?”
Yes, and the word “crap” is extremely fair and objective with no trace of bias whatsoever.
As for the claims of “alchoholism,” would you mind telling me why, on the one hand, it is not okay for people to support someone like that, while on the other it was okay for people to vote — not once, mind you, but twice — for a man who not only “did not inhale” (which was supposed to justify marijuana abuse) but fornicated in the Oval Office?
Sorry, Shiloh, but your arguments are a bit too one-sided for my liking. You’re only seeing your side rather than looking at the big picture — why should you expect the rest of us to do what you refuse to do?
September 10, 2004 - 02:12 PM on September 10th, 2004
no one believed Clinton was honest about grass. they didn’t care. they didn’t care about his anti-war of draft dodging – why do ya think, huh?
i wasn’t calling the President a nazi. some of the folks here appear to treat him as a fuhrer figure & that was what my comment was directed to.
please stop telling me about the Jews in Germany.
why not talk about the Sudanese ethnic cleansing that we’re doing nothing about. why not talk about the terrorism in N. Irelenad and Sri Lanka that we’re doing nothing about.
why not talk about the fact that the republican leadership continually criticized Clinton for going to Bosnia and told him he should have waited for the fucking U>N>???? yes, conintually criticised a sitting President while soldiers were in the field. shitheads, huh. oops – i forgot – they’re your shitheads, not the other shitheads, so we can spin the shit into honey for the sake of what??????
HYPOCRITES – READ THE HISTORY OF YOUR OWN PARTY BEFORE SPOUTING YOUR CRAP.
best
September 10, 2004 - 02:18 PM on September 10th, 2004
“why not talk about the Sudanese ethnic cleansing that we’re doing nothing about. why not talk about the terrorism in N. Irelenad and Sri Lanka that we’re doing nothing about”. Interested to know what Kerry’s detailed plan is here. Do tell.
September 10, 2004 - 02:19 PM on September 10th, 2004
What is the UN doing about ethnic cleansing in the Sudan,Ireland and SriLanka? Why is it that everything falls to the US Can’t Canada take that one, they are a peace loving bunch, have them handle it.
September 10, 2004 - 02:19 PM on September 10th, 2004
I just went over to CBS and they are standing by their story.
Pity, pity.:mad:
September 10, 2004 - 02:27 PM on September 10th, 2004
Shiloh..to fix the problems you just named..ya know you might have to put some soldiers’ lives at risk and spend some money right? You damn war hungry Liberals…hahahahahaha…You wouldn’t be happy if Bush brought peace to every nation, a chicken in every pot..you’d still find something to bitch about….in the words of W.C. Fields..”now go away kid, ya botherin’ me”.
September 10, 2004 - 02:27 PM on September 10th, 2004
Looks like I pressed the right button shiloh, only the truly guilty get so angry when confronted with their guilt. Still at the computer I see, how’s the job search going? Or is it social welfare programs that keeps your belly full and your electricity on? Who needs Capitalism…. You?
September 10, 2004 - 02:42 PM on September 10th, 2004
BonBon- you didn’t expect them to do anything but that do you? But it is still early, check back in later this evening and it will more than likely be updated.
September 10, 2004 - 02:43 PM on September 10th, 2004
Because of the classic case of “Do as I say, not as I do” that is all too typical of the libs. I’m reminded of Grey Davis’ “shock” over the notion of “Ah-nold” having groped no fewer than thirteen women. In light of Clinton’s classic “I did not have sexual relations with that woman”-speech, I think it shows incredible hypocrisy on his part.
I don’t see where choosing to support the President is indicative of treating him as a “Fuhrer figure” per se. Granted, yes, I know countries like North Korea have laws where you have to refer to their leader as “Our beloved leader” and other silly things, but that’s not the case here. Many people have called Bush every name under the sun — are they getting thrown out of the country? And what is wrong with choosing not to do that, and having a contrary opinion?
If you don’t want me to talk about Jewish treatment in WWII, then don’t bring up references to the Nazis — it’s that simple. Or anything having to do with propoganda (yes, this includes Michael Moore’s film), since that of the Nazis is arguably the most dramatic and powerful example.
Yes, why not talk about the fact that it was perfectly all right for him to do that, where it was not all right for Bush? Why not keep this a fair discussion?
You too…and try to watch the name-calling before you criticize us of the same thing. Try to critique us of things you know you yourself are innocent of and cannot be nailed on.
September 10, 2004 - 02:50 PM on September 10th, 2004
Oh my, now Edwards is suggesting Bush address the content of the memos, even if they aren’t true. These people never cease to amaze.
September 10, 2004 - 03:33 PM on September 10th, 2004
Sandy, Bush hasn’t brought peace to 1 country yet maybe if he could have just done Afghanistan we wouldn’t be bitching so much. Instead he’s managed to kill a few terrorists, thousands of innocents, lie to the nation to attack the wrong country and incite civil war.
“You wouldn’t be happy if Bush brought peace to every nation, a chicken in every pot..you’d still find something to bitch about”
September 10, 2004 - 04:08 PM on September 10th, 2004
Check out this link
September 10, 2004 - 04:32 PM on September 10th, 2004
So can ever trust these liberal left-wing journalist? they are no different the tokyo rose or who ever was a propegandist of WW II like joseph gobeles and their kind they are liars its time to take a mallet to 60 minutes stop watch and bash away:mad::twisted::razz:
September 10, 2004 - 04:38 PM on September 10th, 2004
And Canada has:?::???::???:
September 10, 2004 - 04:43 PM on September 10th, 2004
am i nuts but are folks here always comparing the left wing to nazis.
once and for all – we’re not nazis, we’re communists.
i would tell you who’s the parrellel to the nazis but i’m just too dog gone nice.
September 10, 2004 - 04:50 PM on September 10th, 2004
Yes. You are nuts.
September 10, 2004 - 04:59 PM on September 10th, 2004
well, there’s an answer, alrighty.
September 10, 2004 - 05:11 PM on September 10th, 2004
poor misguided shiloh,
looking back at history it is clear to me that communism has never failed. oh wait, it has always failed! communism goes against human nature. do us all a favor shiloh, get a copy of “Atlas Shrugged” by Ayn Rand, read it (in a free country you are allowed to read) and then decide if your communistic values hold up or not.
September 10, 2004 - 05:25 PM on September 10th, 2004
I see that shiloh has not changed one bit.
Scream “Bush lied”, ignore any facts that may be available, change the subject, blow lots of smoke to try and divert everyone’s attention and tell everyone that they are to stupid to know what they are talking about.
My advice to shiloh, canuck, et al, is to crawl back in their holes, lick their wounds and hope the DNC and Hillary don’t screw up this bad in 2008. (Of course that would call for a complete change in the Democratic leadership.)
September 10, 2004 - 05:29 PM on September 10th, 2004
Aaron,
so have warlike right wing regimes that try to impose their values on other people. but,
what i was being called was a nazi for my LEFT wing views.
i was just trying to correct the direction of the insults.
Ayn Rand, to me was to secular for her own objectivism.
September 10, 2004 - 05:30 PM on September 10th, 2004
Crabby, the brilliance of your insights has finally cracked my mind to let the light in.
thanks
September 10, 2004 - 05:59 PM on September 10th, 2004
The organizers of this year’s Republican National Convention engaged in some very shrewd rewriting of history. If you watched carefully, you noticed a narrative of the war on terrorism in which most of the past two years disappeared.
In judging whether this administration has the right answers to terrorism and war, voters can rely on the images. Or they can rely on the record.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10272-2004Sep9.html?referrer=email
September 10, 2004 - 06:04 PM on September 10th, 2004
Shiloh, you are starting to get really boring. It’s Friday night. Why don’t you go out and find someone to listen to you.
September 10, 2004 - 06:08 PM on September 10th, 2004
still at work.
if i’m pissing people off so much, i must be doing something right.
waiting for the ‘Amen Corner’ to come out so you can all tsk tsk the evildoers and pat each other on the back?
don’t leave your comfort zone, it real life out here.
September 10, 2004 - 06:13 PM on September 10th, 2004
Glad to see you have a job.
The only Amen Corner I care about is at Augusta National.
I don’t see you pissing anyone off right now – it looks to me that everyone has packed up their marbles and gone home for the weekend. As for me, it’s only 4, so I am still at work as well. And you don’t piss me off. You make me yawn.
September 10, 2004 - 06:16 PM on September 10th, 2004
what do you care about?
let’s talk policy.
let’s get some republican juice on the table.
September 10, 2004 - 06:17 PM on September 10th, 2004
& why the implied insults all the time?
(glad to see you have a job. yr boring.)
some of u aren’t that polite, ya know.
September 10, 2004 - 06:33 PM on September 10th, 2004
Shiloh, I assumed that a Communist would never take advantage of a political system that gives him the opportunity to work. Sorry if I misjudged your convictions.
ISSUES:
• Reforming America’s High Schools: President Bush will provide $250 million annually to extend state assessment of student reading and math skills.
• Jobs for the 21st Century Initiative: President Bush will provide $500 million for Jobs for the 21st Century, which will help educate and train high-skilled American workers in schools and community colleges.
• Tax Reform: President Bush will work to make the tax code simpler for taxpayers, encourage saving and investment, and improve the economy’s ability to create jobs and raise wages.
• Opportunity Zones: President Bush will create new Opportunity Zones, which will encourage public and private investment and provide priority consideration for Federal benefits to communities that are under economic hardship.
• Helping the Working Uninsured by Expanding Health Savings Accounts: President Bush will propose a tax credit for Health Savings Account contributions to help individuals and families who work for small businesses fund their Health Savings Accounts.
• Make Health Care Accessible: President Bush will call for a community health center in every poor county in America.
• Promote Comp-Time and Flex-Time: President Bush will work to enable employees to choose paid time off as an alternative to overtime pay and to give employees the option of shifting work hours during a pay period.
• Crack Down On Drugs in Schools: President Bush will increase funding for school drug testing to help students resist peer pressure and help parents intervene with students in need.
• Homeownership: President Bush will provide assistance to help America to meet his new goal of creating 7 million new, affordable homes in 10 years.
• Social Security Reform: President Bush will strengthen and enhance Social Security, guaranteeing no changes in benefits for current retirees and near-retirees, while giving younger workers the opportunity to use their Social Security payroll taxes to build a nest egg for retirement that can be passed on to their families.
• Help Small Businesses: President Bush will help small businesses in a number of ways, including by allowing them to band together to provide more affordable health care for their employees through Association Health Plans.
• Fight the War On Offense: President Bush will continue to lead a worldwide coalition to fight terrorists abroad so we do not have to face them here at home.
• Intelligence Reform: President Bush will work with a new National Intelligence Director to improve the quality and quantity of our intelligence and our ability to disrupt and prevent terrorist attacks.
• Troop Redeployment: President Bush will restructure American forces overseas to use existing forces more effectively and to support servicemen, servicewomen, and their families more efficiently.
Supporting Our Communities and Honoring American Values of Compassion and Service
• Judges: President Bush will continue to appoint to the Federal courts well-qualified judges who share his commitment to strictly interpret the law.
• Welfare Reform: President Bush will continue to press for reauthorization of welfare reform and to build on its successes, strengthening families and helping more welfare recipients achieve independence through work.
• Faith-Based and Community Initiatives: President Bush will continue to support the good work of community and faith-based groups and help ensure that these charities can participate in Federal, state, and local programs without discrimination
This should keep you busy for a while.
September 10, 2004 - 06:38 PM on September 10th, 2004
Thanks Aaron, I am taking off and didn’t want Shiloh to have nothing to do for the night.
Happy Weekend, everyone
September 10, 2004 - 07:49 PM on September 10th, 2004
I updated my investigation into this tonight. I cannot believe the arrogance of the media (especially CBS) on this issue. They are totally acting as though these documents might be real. Heck, the DNC is sending out mail alerts to its supporters and creating strategy based on these forged doucuments.
Check out my analysis:
http://rupertzone.net
I am surprised more people aren’t creating their own forgeries of the forgery to help prove the facts.
September 10, 2004 - 08:14 PM on September 10th, 2004
Check out Hannity and Colmes! They are getting an earful tonight!
September 10, 2004 - 08:25 PM on September 10th, 2004
I thought this National Guard shit was a dead horse?
Fake or not, Bush still DID NOT SHOW UP FOR DUTY after he obligated himself to do so!
Whatta pussy!
And you think we’re safer?????
September 10, 2004 - 08:39 PM on September 10th, 2004
Yeah! Look at Hannity. He’s a lying weasel on angel dust!!!
September 11, 2004 - 08:35 AM on September 11th, 2004
dg, Kerry didn’t show up for the Ready Reserves. Seems he was too busy trying to sell the country out in Paris to the North Vietnamese.
Also, dg, the Byron York piece explains everything perfectly. Bush followed the rules in place. Oh, I forgot, union democraps don’t follow the rules, they just beat people up.
September 11, 2004 - 09:16 AM on September 11th, 2004
PCD- did you see Hannity last night? It was a good hour and shed new light on the subject. This is not going away. Funny to hear that they consider the “blogger” part of the news organizations leg of research though.
September 11, 2004 - 01:31 PM on September 11th, 2004
G.W.Bush, the Pussy that’s led us through 2 wars. You’re right, no backbone at all. Clinton, now that’s a guy with a spine! He taught the whole world that you could get away with kicking America in the nuts. The first WTC attack, The USS Cole, The Embassy bombings and the crown jewel of his gutless career the Somalia Campaign and subsequent hasty withdrawl after one fire fight. Yup, Bill was tough SOB. A REAL Leader……Open mouth, insert foot.
September 12, 2004 - 12:50 AM on September 12th, 2004
Yeah Bush rocks. America get’s kicked in the nuts and he tries to stall an investigation into it, then doesn’t co-operate with the cover up council he appointed. But he’s no pussy he’s fighting so hard he’ attacked the wrong country! Kicking ass and killing American youth all around the world! That balls out cowboy has gone and earned himself over 1000 kills.
September 12, 2004 - 05:44 AM on September 12th, 2004
What would a Canadian know about military strategy?
September 12, 2004 - 06:39 AM on September 12th, 2004
You know, I seem to recall a story about the “Art against Bush”-festival, or whatever it was called (let’s face it, that’s what it ultimately boiled down to), where the most creative art seemed to be just how colorful the anti-Bush language could get, and just how many “creative” ways the f-word could have been used. Reading so many posts using profanity against Bush reminds me of that, and if the point is to express one’s personal fear and anger against Bush, consider the point received.
However, the excessive profanity doesn’t seem to cover up the fact that the arguments used are the same old arguments that have been ignored twenty times over, and for those who have a habit of ignoring profanity…well, let’s just say it’s quite possible this could prove to be counter-productive for those hoping that excessive profanity will get attention to the same old tired arguments. It’s just like Kerry’s “decorated war vet”-plea being the only card — and a pretty shaky one at that — he seems to be able to play.
I thought liberals were supposed to be more creative and original than this. Really, I’m tremendously disappointed.
September 12, 2004 - 07:15 AM on September 12th, 2004
Oh, that’s a lot better.
To me, that’s like saying, “I didn’t say I admired Ted Bundy — I said I admired Jeffrey Daumer.” 
In other words, you’re simply trading one butcher for another.
As for the comparisons between the Nazis and libs, I have two very good reasons:
1) The phrase “Nazi” is short for the phrase “National Socialist Party.” That’s right — they were socialists, a fact that most libs seem to forget.
2) Much like the Nazis, libs are quite fond of propoganda, and seldom allow the truth to stand in the way of whatever image they’re trying to create. Once you get down to it, is there really much of a difference between the work of Michael Moore and Leni Riefenstahl?
Now there is a way to prove me wrong about my theories, though I somehow doubt that you are up to it. Rather than throwing as many four-letter words as you can think of at me in a desperate attempt at deflection (or as many as seem to be allowed by the administration, I might add), or only reinforcing my point through the same tired arguments, you could try thinking of all of this on your own, and coming to your own conclusions rather than quoting the likes of Michael Moore and Dan Rather.
September 12, 2004 - 07:19 AM on September 12th, 2004
AG, Liberals aren’t creative, exept in creating ways to leach off the decent people who work and don’t work at causing trouble like the Kerry trolls.
September 12, 2004 - 08:33 AM on September 12th, 2004
Note to the administrator of this site:
Shiloh has confessed to using this site while at work. He is stealing from his employer. Take the IP address recorded when he logs on and send a message to the administrator at his employer with a few choice quotes, showing how he is using his employer’s resources. If it was my company I would definitely want to know about this.
September 12, 2004 - 11:08 AM on September 12th, 2004
Why would I do that? I wonder how many of the people here comment on this site while at work? Do you suggest it because he shares different views than the majority in this forum?
Sorry, different views are acceptable, Johnathan. I don’t agree with a whole lot of what shiloh posts here – - however, I’m not here to play thought police.
September 12, 2004 - 11:37 AM on September 12th, 2004
“What would a Canadian know about military strategy?”
A lot more than someone who doesn’t work knows about work!
September 12, 2004 - 12:06 PM on September 12th, 2004
In regards to #57 and 58, Thank you Lisa. I like to check in when at work also. I didn’t think it was a crime. In fact, I am sure my employer would back me. AZ is going to BUSH THIS YEAR!!!
September 12, 2004 - 12:29 PM on September 12th, 2004
The Canadian obviously doesn’t know much about the loyalty and patriotism of the majority of the US Military. You see, we’re volunteers. Bush did not kill any of those young men. Some were very close to me, so I took that comment rather personal. I believe that it belittles the true reason they gave the last full measure. They died so America can continue to be safe. They died keeping the terrorists busy so they couldn’t attack American soil again. They gave everything they had so that American civilians could continue to live their lives uninterrupted. Yet the simple beauty of their sacrifice gets lost to some of the civilian population. People who have never lived a life of service cannot understand the real reason these young men spill their blood in a foreign land. I believe most will never appreciate what they have unless they’ve tried in vain to stop that blood from pouring out of their friend. It would be so nice if people knew the truth, but you cannot impress the truth in a political discussion.
September 12, 2004 - 12:39 PM on September 12th, 2004
” Yet the simple beauty of their sacrifice gets lost to some of the civilian population.”
I believe our soldiers believe they are doing the right thing. They are doing their job the way they were trained to do it.
It is their President who has taken advantage of their patriotism.
if you owned a lumber company and you were paid to clear cut hill A but you send your crew out to clearcut hill B, your crew may have done their job, but because you made a mistake someone is going to pay.
In Iraq, that someone is our children.
If Bush gets re-elected there will be a draft. Then there will be an overwhelming outcry against the war in Iraq.
September 12, 2004 - 01:23 PM on September 12th, 2004
Don’t mistake patriotism for blind niavety. If John Kerry was a stand up guy who promised to see this war through to the end then my pick for Commander in Chief might be a little tougher. I however see none of those qualities in the man. I’m also having trouble with the analogy that Iraq was innocent by-stander on the terrorism playing field. Possibly there is a better qualified candidate out there, but he doesn’t have the nuts to stand up and run. So I’ll take Bush’s Teddy Roosevelt like tenacity over Kerry’s own indecisiveness.
September 12, 2004 - 05:21 PM on September 12th, 2004
Oh, that’s a lot better.
To me, that’s like saying, “I didn’t say I admired Ted Bundy — I said I admired Jeffrey Daumer.” 
In other words, you’re simply trading one butcher for another.
As for the comparisons between the Nazis and libs, I have two very good reasons:
1) The phrase “Nazi” is short for the phrase “National Socialist Party.” That’s right — they were socialists, a fact that most libs seem to forget.
2) Much like the Nazis, libs are quite fond of propoganda, and seldom allow the truth to stand in the way of whatever image they’re trying to create. Once you get down to it, is there really much of a difference between the work of Michael Moore and Leni Riefenstahl?
Now there is a way to prove me wrong about my theories, though I somehow doubt that you are up to it. Rather than throwing as many four-letter words as you can think of at me in a desperate attempt at deflection (or as many as seem to be allowed by the administration, I might add), or only reinforcing my point through the same tired arguments, you could try thinking of all of this on your own, and coming to your own conclusions rather than quoting the likes of Michael Moore and Dan Rather.
September 13, 2004 - 06:00 PM on September 13th, 2004
Just a bit of information dg…. I have 2 friends that signed up for the military this last February. They signed up AFTER the start of the war in Iraq. They signed up AFTER the start of the insurgency in Iraq. They signed up KNOWING that they could very well GO to Iraq. Regardless, they signed up because they wanted to make a difference. They wanted to help the people of Iraq get their country back on its feet. They didn’t sign up because they had to. George Bush didn’t make them. Their parents didn’t make them. Their parents are probably scared out of thier minds, but they respect their decisions and support them 100%. One of them is scheduled to depart for Iraq this November. I pray for his safety, and if something happens to him, I will still honor his decision, his memory, and his compasion for humanity. I will not blame George Bush for his decision.
September 13, 2004 - 07:11 PM on September 13th, 2004
I don’t blame George Bush for your friend’s decision to join and I, too admire the troops on the ground.
I blame Bush for HIS decision!! The President is taking advantage of their patriotism!
The evidence is that a lot of people have died and will continue to die — unnecessarily — because Bush clearly failed to defend us on 9/11, and pushed, exaggerated, even fabricated “evidence” of Saddam’s quest for WMD!
The Bush family has close relations with the Saudi’s and have received financing from members of the bin Laden family.
During the Reagan Administration, Bush41, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Pearle played both sides of the Iran-Iraq War while giving ample support to Saddam Huessein — even as Saddam used chemical weapons against Iran and filled mass graves in his own country. Now they tell us what a monster he is. A monster they created!
When Reagan sold weapons to Iranian terrorists in the mid 80’s, how do you think Saddam felt? After Rumsfeld HIMSELF told Saddam TO HIS FACE that Iraq had the full support of the US and WOULD NOT SELL WEAPONS TO IRAN? (Iran held 52 Americans hostage for 444 days in 1979-80).
And don’t forget: Gulf War I began when oil companies in Kuwait were slant drilling into Iraq, effectively stealing Iraqi oil. One of the Companies was Arbusto/Harken, the same one Salem bin Laden financed for Bush. Bush sold his shares in the company two weeks prior to Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait.
Did you know Bush was negotiating with the Taliban prior to 9/11?
But it wasn’t about terrorism. It was about building an oil pipeline through Afgahnistan!
Now, we are at war with these very same players. Frankensteins, created by the facist wing of the Bush Admin.
You don’t feel betrayed?
September 13, 2004 - 08:59 PM on September 13th, 2004
I will rank that about 3rd dumb:roll:est posts for dg
September 14, 2004 - 05:43 AM on September 14th, 2004
The Draft? I honestly don’t see that ever happening..alot of military jobs now are so specialized that it would take too long to train them only to let them get released in 2 to 3 yrs..my husbands’ tech school was a year long and that was years ago. The Draft just ain’t gonna work anymore..you can’t go to Basic training for 8wks, than just show up at a base or Iraq and now what you’re doing..systems are hi-tech now..no longer the days of “On the Job Training.” Don’t worry dg..I doubt you’ll send a love one off at the train station against their will.
September 14, 2004 - 09:18 AM on September 14th, 2004
Ok dg, so if Kuwait was slant drilling into Iraq, then why didn’t Iraq settle this problem “diplomatically” rather than just invading? Seems you have another double standard. Also, Bush didn’t start the problems in the middle east. He’s just trying to clean up after all that came before him. And no, he is NOT taking advantage of my friend’s patriotism. They donate their freedoms and patriotism freely. It’s called freedom of speech. Maybe you’ve heard of it?