And We Got It!
The makers of the John Kerry documentary “Stolen Honor” were having such a difficult time getting it on the air due to threats of legal action and so much more that they have made it available to all of us on the web FREE of charge.
I just finished viewing it and it is a must see. To view the documentary click HERE
Articles of Interest:
Stolen Honor
More Stolen Honor
FCC Won’t Block Doc
Even More Stolen Honor
My brother is in the military. He is Special Forces and has been in the military for 16 years. He is stationed somewhere in either Iraq or Afghanistan we are not entirely sure the exact location. He hates the thought of another democrat getting into office. The defense budget was seriously slashed under Clinton.
I hated the thought of Kerry before but now I am filled with unspeakable anger!! This man can’t be elected President!! This man totally scares me even more now!!!
AG- The question I would ask Kerry is, Would you do anything differently now? It showed him as an opportunist, which is what I believe he is. But he would do everything differenly in Iraq, so I would like to see what he would say about this.
Shannon- You captured the essence of fighting a war. We did go after Hitler and Moussalini, but at the same time, attempted to cripple their power. John Kerry knows this, but is willing to say what it takes to get elected.
Michelle- I would like to extend a thank-you to you and your entire family, for giving your brother the support he needs to fight for the freedom of people, not only in this country, but abroad. I will keep him in my thoughts and prayers, and please give us updates on how your family is coping.
You should print a copy of you post Michelle, and many years from now, when you are both old and gray, give it to him.
As for the question on Walter and others that reported? Well we had 3 choices back then for our news. And not every station came in like it does now. We were forced to watch what they showed us. They showed us what they chose to air. Much like Dan Rather at CBS does now.
John Kerry does not get to pick and chose what gets reported about his Vietnam record. He put it out there knowing full well what would come up. He banked on more anti war supporters quieting the other side.
You’re exactly right peejz, HE put his 4 month military carrier in the center of his campaign not us.
How many Vietnam soldiers took an 8mm camera with them? He’s such an opportunist.
I’ll tell you what angers me the most is HE MEET WITH THE ENEMY, While still in the service to this country. Why isn’t there any accountability for his actions? His picture hangs in their war museum!! Good GOD people WAKE UP!!!!!!!
Kerry is a coward and a traitor, there are no two ways about it. He was dishonorably discharged, but the Carter administration gave amnesty to deserters and traitors, so that fact is conveniently covered up and he won’t release those records. The truth is emerging as the final days to the election approaches. I look at everyone who is talking against the war just the exact same as I look at Vietnam Vets Against the War: They’re allied with the enemy and they’re traitors. NEVER IN MY LIFETIME has a presidential campaign tried to get a candidate elected by insulting America’s best allies, at the same time as putting our sons’ lives on the line. That’s exactly what Sen. John Kerry has been doing for months now…and it’s straight out of the VVAW playbook. The tactics they’re using on MTV trying to scare the kids about Bush secretly planning a draft is ridiculous but the polls indicate that those kids don’t know much about that subject, so they’re able to make points. I’M NOT GOING TO FALL FOR KERRY’S SOCIALIST RHETORIC!
Well said Cao, The msm hammered Bush to release his records which he has, but kerry gets a pass on this subject with them. BIAS? The only logical conclusion is kerry has something he doesn’t want exposed. He’s going to get away with it because the big three(ABC,NBC,CBS)are in his back pocket.
The man is PHONY, CORRUPT, IMMORAL, TREASONOUS,FAKE,CONDESCENDING,ARROGANT and a LIER!
Cao – “Kerry’s socialist republic”: ridiculous. Others – I said that most Vietnam vets served honorably, and that atcrocities that were committed (of which there were vast amounts)were systemic, mostly through aerial bombing, aerial deploying of mines, and free-fire zones. None of you have actually addressed my arguments about how dishonest this movie is. And snowy egret, if you call me a brown shirt one more time…
Correction, Cao – “rhetoric”, not “republic”. Still ridiculous. “America’s best allies” – I’m sure the Polish, the Martiniquans, the Ukrainians, and the Bulgarians will be flattered. This documentary is grossly unfair, and your collective support shows your collective colours.
Sandy, I don’t know your age, but I was in high school in the early 70′S. I remember John Kerry very well. An anti war hero whose Senatorial career only validated this status. Now he’s running for president as a war hero? We sent our boys (it was not a volunteer army) over there and when they came back, they were jeered as baby killers and spit on. The way we (as a country)treated them was disgusting. Kerry had a huge hand in this, and still considers himself a war hero. The same war he branded everyone else a war criminal? My take, if John F Kerry gets soundly defeated all will be well in the world of Karma.
Am I the only one that finds irony in the fact that most who called our Viet Nam Vets, baby killers, have no problem with abortion. Its a crazy world we live in.
Wilky,
I agree completely about the abortion comment – it seems that he has a double standard. What are we to believe about Kerry – he seems to say what he thinks others want to hear. This is a scary thought when he might be the one who will lead us against terrorism. Will he listen to the French or the UN?????????
Sandy, you need to sit up and smell the flowers. Methinks you have a “stinkweed” in the midst!
Kathy
who is a proud Bush supporter!
I’m not happy that Kerry is running on his war record, for reasons different from yours, Wilky. But you are the latest poster to miss my point. Kerry’s testimony was against the military and political establishment that allowed Vietnam to happen. Not individual soldiers. This film actually edits Kerry’s speech in places to emphasise aspects that seem to validate your point. While I was not really aware of much at the time, I have strong opinions about Vietnam, and I believe that the period from 1962-1968, when the press and population, by and large, accepted the war as an inevitability that their government had an unchallenged right to wage, was a far more morally corrupt era than 1968-1973. This film is an attempt to re-forge the memory of Vietnam from the ’62-68 lens. I’m not sure what history you have all read about Vietnam, but Kerry’s accusations about the horrors of the free-fire zones were prescient, and for the most part have stood the test of history.
As far as your abortion comment, I’m not sure – I’ve never called a Vietnam Vet a baby killer. I’ve called Henry Kissinger a murderer, but that’s in far more lucid territory.
If the film validates my point, thats fine, except I didn’t, nor do I plan on watching it. I know Kerry by watching him the past 30 years. There is not much about him I find admirable. An example. Within the past year, Tim Russert asked him about an exchange he had with John O’Neil on the Dick Cavett Show in 1971 where O’Neil said that a rapid withdrawl would result in wide scale killing, Kerry said that ‘sure there would be 5000 or so political assainations but he didn’t feel there would be wide scale killing’ (after he has been to Paris). After the clip his immediate response was “Tim, would you look at that hair”. Of course we all know about the boat people and the killing fieds of Cambodia. He missed by a few million people. John O’Neil also refuted Kerry’s idea of free fire zones, saying that just because they were there, there was no reason to fire indiscriminately. In fact he said that they went to great lengths to make sure that the only returned fire at the enemy.
And can I assume that you were against Clintion in Bosnia and Kosovo since that was only aerial bombing on our part.
American bombing in Cambodia during the six months after the Paris Peace killed 300,000 civilians. How’s that for large-scale killing?
Has nothing to do with Bosnia or Kosovo
Kerry’s testimony was against the military and political establishment that allowed Vietnam to happen. Not individual soldiers
but the way he went about it did brand the soliders as baby killers and evil men and he kerry didn’t care enough to try and clear their name.
what i love is how kerry admits to committing war crimes, but when you ask a kerry supporter about it they say “he never did that, your a lier!”, heck how many tiems has sean hannity asked that only to have some one say hannity is lying..even with the confession on tape?!
Wilky,
I was for strong intervention in Bosnia, including the deployment of American ground troops. Comparing Clinton’s half-assed bombing in Bosnia that came way too late (after the death of 400,000 people) to Nixon’s bombing of Cambodia is ridiculous. History has shown that the American pullout of Vietnam resulted in a lower loss of life than continued war. The one possible exception to that rule was in Cambodia, except if we consider that without Congress the bombing would have continued perhaps for years.
WallyWest80, you again mischaracterise Kerry’s comments. Noone here has responded to the fact that this shameful film EDITS Kerry’s speech to Congress. I don’t think that the term “war criminal” is being used in a way that I would use it – individual soldiers in Vietnam were in a tough situation that politicians and generals could only dream of – even those who were WW2 veterans (as in Vietnam the distinction between combatant and non-combatant was very blurry). It was the politicians, Republican and Democrat, who created the free-fire zones, Ok’d civilian targets for bombing, and covered up atrocities committed by US troops who were the war criminals. Not the soldiers, for the most part. How many G’Damn times do I have to type that? I’m glad you all know courageous Vietnam vets – but we are talking about the movie and Kerry’s accusations. The discussion has flown way off the mark from it’s topic – the opportunistic, scurrilous, simple-minded, and poisoned piece of “journalism” posted on this site.
I don’t see the film as a lie at all. This is a short film based on the recollection of some American P.O.W.’s. Do you recall watching the news during the Vietnam war? Do you remember seeing the N.V’s beating our soldiers in streets as they were parading them in front of the camera? (Hanoi Hilton no less) Do you remember seeing our P.O.W.’s being put on the evening news stating that they were criminals and deserved to be punished? Do you think the soldiers that were forced to watch his testimony and were tortured because of it, really care that John Kerry feels the victim now?
I have went far our of my way to understand kerry, i even watched his whole interview on the dick cavit show where he said he committed war crimes, O’Neil really took him to town in that one.
Peejz,
The North Vietnamese certainly tortured American prisoners, and began to do it 9 years before John Kerry’s testimony. I don’t see your point. The systematic liquidation of certain civilian areas of South Vietnam and Cambodia (Project Phoenix) during the 1960′s was also official American policy. Kerry was not lying about that, or the free-fire zone. You are not arguing – you are doing what this film is doing – parading emotions about torture in the place of deductive reasoning. Why does John McCain have nothing but good things to say about Kerry’s actions in 1968-72?
WallyWest80 – I hope you have given Kerry a chance. You can start by actually looking into the allegations this movie makes.
‘History has shown that the American pullout of Vietnam resulted in a lower loss of life than continued war’
Come on Sandy, first, we must be ignoring the aftermath or only considering American live. Second, we were just on the verge of winning the war when we pulled out. The tet offensive was a military victory but a PR loss.
For all we know, if we stayed, South Viet Nam could be as free and prosperous as South Korea.
Sandy- John McCain has said that he admires his service to country. He does not publicly acknowledge his feelings on the issue of the testimony.
What is the point you are trying to make and so desperately want someone to agree with? You are right, I am not arguing. I am not arguing as there is nothing to argue about.
The movie was an eyewhitness account given by American P.O.W.’s during the time in which John Kerry gave testimony to the Congress. The people speak of the reprucussions of that testimony.
I question your age and understanding of the content of this subject matter.
Why did John Kerry testify and then go on the Cavett show to tell of things he saw and did, only to recant the story 30 years later?
You are preaching to the choir if you think you have said one thing of relevence to change many of our positions on the issues.
Sandy, I’m confused. In post#64 you said ” covered up atrocities committed by US troops who were the war criminals, not the soldiers. For the most part.” Tell me the difference between US troops and soldiers.
Peejz,
The point I’ve made far too much here is that the movie is bunk. It is not journalism.
Geo,
Sorry you are confused. I am, as was Kerry, criticising generals and politicians, who are responsible for their troops’ actions and the military framework in which they conduct combat operations.
Wilky,
Now you are making things up. The US was no closer to “winning” that war in 1973 as it was in 1963. The Communists had sustained grievous losses in Tet and after, true, but the nature of the North Vietnamese war was such that it would not have ended on America’s terms without the complete destruction of NV society.
You guys will have the last words, s’pose. All the best.
How is it bunk? Because you don’t believe it? How silly. You really have no clear knowledge of the Vietnam war, nor military operations. You have an opinion of what it should be and make that your definition.
Sandy,
What is the difference between what happened in Bosnia and the millions of Iraq’s that were tortured and buried in mass graves over the decades of Saddam Hussein’s reign? I think the only difference is that you support one President and villify another.
My brother has seen the terrible effects of Saddam’s treatment of his people. He has seen firsthand the jails filled with you children. There for no other reason than their parents refused to allow them to join Saddam’s army.
My step father was a Green Beret in Vietnam. Unfortunately he passed away 4 years ago. I am not old enough to remember most of what went on during that time. The only thing I know is what I have been told. Seeing John Kerry saying what he said is more than enough to turn my stomach and pray that he doesn’t get elected.
I agree that if he is so against the child killing then how can he be for abortion? Makes no sense to me!!
It is hard having a family member in Special Forces. We get fewer calls than other family members. Letters are few and far between. This is what we know though. My brother wouldn’t be happy do anything else with his life. He loves his country and his career. He is married with 4 children. They have been married for 18 years. The kids miss their dad but they also think of him as their hero. They know that he is away fighting for his country. They also hear alot of what the people say. Sometimes they don’t understand why people are so upset because their dad is fighting for their freedom. We try to tell them that it is not their dad, it is the war in general. They are still confused. All in all it is hard but worth the sacrafices that we make.
Sandy, I agree that some politicians deserve criticising. Mainly Johnson and McNamara by micro managing the war from the oval office. But I seriously doubt it was policy to commit atrocities.
Michelle, your brother is a GREAT AMERICAN!
Geo- If they were to be faulted for anything, it was for watching a poll number rather than the task at hand. Allowing the people to remain free in this country that were guilty of treason.
Where is Tom Hayden again? Isn’t it time for him to visit Sadam?
I LOVE that this documentary is FREE…nobody is getting FAT off the PROFITS..i.e. Michael Moore!
:cool:
p.s. that other Sandy hasn’t been me
77. Great to hear that, Sandy! I was beginning to think I was going to have to take your hammer away from you.
ADMINS: Is there something that can be done about this? The first Sandy does have claim to the handle on this site. I was honestly thinking she either fell and hit her head, or she fell asleep next to a pod.
sasha- that wasn’t even the other Sandy…The sandy we know and love would have
A.- spoken her mind as only she can do
B.- pointed out the error of the ways of this Sandy.
C.- written in her southern way that we all love! Where the hell is she? Oh that’t right, stationed on a base half way around the world:!:
Then again, peejz, what do I know? I’m a big liberal…:shock:
77: Real Sandy (;); as Peejz mentioned, I do hope that can be fixed up), great minds think alike!!! That’s exactly what occurred to me when this free download surfaced!
These guys aren’t trying to make a buck off of an embittered public, a la Michael Moore. They’re merely concerned Vets who have suffered terrible atrocities and are genuinely concerned over not only the smearing of their legacy, but the notion that the very man responsible could quite easily become the Commander-in-Chief, and they simply want the truth to be told, regardless of profit.
They’re not seeking a tangible reward. They just want their story told. That was what became quite clear to me by the end of the presentation, and that is what I believe will hit home for those who watch.
I could not agree more AG! I watched it and realized that I owed them my time and at the very least, I could and should listen to what they had to say.
Sasha- liberal or not, you add a good perspective to many discussions and I enjoy reading what you have to say.:smile:
Thanks, peejz. That was just going back to Jeffrey’s confusion last week.
I should’ve put a /sarcasm at the end of that comment instead of
I must admit sasha- I really pay no attention to the onsies and twosies that post here. Nor do I give much to those that post and fail to try to see the others point of view. In re-reading some of the posts I found myself chuckling at the fact that I was accused of not “arguing”. I don’t come here to argue…I come here to discuss and learn.
I knew what you meant though:cool:
I think it’s sad when a man (Kerry) was in Nam for four months. Then comes back to the states and starts bad mouthing the American Government and our G.I.’s. I was never in the armed forces, but I have family members and friends that were and in WWII & Nam, Korea & Desert Storm. I know one thing for sure if it was not for those brave people that fought I and many other would not be free today. People need to think about that everytime the want to bash the war or a GI.
Thanks for allowing me to share my two cents!!
So basically shut up if you can’t march to the tune the drummer is playing…. do you really want to live in that sort of society Bob?
SL, that’s kind of the vibe we’ve gotten from the anti-war crowd where our POV is concerned. Why should it be any different from the other side? What special privileges do the other side get that we do not?
Interesting rhetoric AG, you get 7.5 points out of 10 for a decent deflection attempt – but unfortunately it has nothing to do with the question does it?
Talk about being overly dramatic:roll:
Geo
RE: 24
I don’t think terrorism will end with the capture of UBL. But if you think the world is safer since we captured Saddam Hussein, it would have to be safer with the capture of UBL!
“…a democratic Iraq hinders the terrorists because it gives them one less safe heaven to operate…”
The current situation in Iraq proves what an idiotic statement this is. Iraq is now a terrorist haven whereas it wasn’t before Bush invaded.
Kerry didn’t trust Bush41, after the lies the government told during Vietnam, I don’t blame him.
There are less than 12,000 troops in Afgahnistan. There are more cops in New York City.
Only a tyrant would impose democracy on a nation.
“Freedom is on the march!”
— George W. Bush
How about the mass graves of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis Saddam’s regime had executed?
You can’t honestly say that this world isn’t safer now and in the future with Saddam out of power!
And what do you have against democracy?
88: Hey, I guess you could say I’m learning from the best libs, now, couldn’t you? Are you trying to tell me you guys never try to change the subject to suit your own purpose without addressing the issues at hand?
But hey, if you seriously want an answer to your question, why don’t you take a crack at mine, the one where you get on our case for not marching to the beat of your drummer, but we are not allowed to do the same where the tables are turned? Otherwise, I will be left to assume that you have the typically liberal seeming incapacity of actually arguing both sides on a fair level.
snatch – is that why we went into Iraq, the graves?
And these executions did not come to light until when Snatch? Did the world discover them after the invasion? Or were they known facts trotted out by the current administration when the whole WMD issue fell through the floor. Don’t get me wrong, Hussein rotting in a jail cell is a good thing, but lets be honest here…. the entire world knew that thousands of people had been killed in Northern Iraq way back when Rummy and Hussein were still hand shaking buddies – but because it was in the best interests of the US at the time to do nothing it was let slide wasn’t it?
AG: My comment was about Bobs thoughts re: the acceptability of the general population taking issue with wars (or potentially anything else for that matter) that a government (any government) decides to engage in. Bob seems to think that there are some things we should just stay shut about about – do you agree or disagree? IMO you, me, and everybody else on the planet, absolutely has the right to our opinion, and the right to voice it…. do we want a society where some opinions are not allowed or acceptable?
BTW: If you catch me ducking and weaving – call me on it.
Snatch
Do you know when Saddam was filling mass graves and using CW against Iranians and Kurds? Reagan/Bush supported Saddam.
War does not make the world safer. It makes it less safe. There are more terrorists in Iraq now than before Saddam was captured. Iraq is a hellhole with Americans in the middle of it. How in the hell is the world safer?
I love democracy. But you cannot impose democracy. How do you force freedom on somebody? It’s an oxymoron!
Speaking of “freedom on the march,” what is Bush going to do when the Iraqi’s vote for a theocracy, like Iran? What happens to democracy, then?
Geo
RE:12
“58000+ died for what? I’ll tell you what,they died trying to stop communism and would have if not for the press…”
Is Vietnam a communist country? I know US corporations have sweatshops there making products for US consumers.
The press made us lose the war? If we “lost” the war, we would be speaking Vietnamese. It was their war. Ho Chi Min took his country back. The US government lied about that war, too!
After 58,000 Americans and numerous wounded, the only real winners seem to be Old Navy sweatshops and the US defense contractors who paved the way.
I have this posted on the front page of Rage4Truth.com. Incredible.
I also have the new soldier in my forums there for free. This guy wants to be our next president.