The Big Abortion Spending Bill
Negotiators Add Abortion Clause to Spending Bill
House and Senate negotiators have tucked an anti-abortion provision into a $388 billion must-pass spending bill, complicating plans for Congress to wrap up its business and adjourn for the year.
The abortion language would bar federal, state and local agencies from withholding taxpayer money from health care providers that refuse to provide or pay for abortions or refuse to offer abortion counseling or referrals. Current federal law, aimed at protecting Roman Catholic doctors, provides such “conscience protection” to doctors who do not want to undergo abortion training. The new language would expand that protection to all health care providers, including hospitals, doctors, clinics and insurers.
An issue of this magnitude should not be tucked into a spending bill.
Of course the National Right to Life Committee is very pleased with this as they’ve wanted something like this for a very long time – - Yet, what is going to happen to a woman’s right to choose if health care providers, doctors, hospitals, clinics and insurers can tell her they don’t have a right to choose anymore?
November 20, 2004 - 08:16 AM on November 20th, 2004
As much as I detest the phrase “a woman’s right to choose”, and even more than I hate abortion, this is not good.
November 20, 2004 - 02:20 PM on November 20th, 2004
i’ll go out on a very shaky limb and say the majority of people who don’t categorize themselves as ‘pro-life’ are not ‘in favor’ of abortions. certainly not for birth control.
wanting a happy healthy 2 parent home is the dream of us all.
i’ve been called ‘pro-abortion’ but i don’t know what that means.
i am pro-choice while wishing that abortions would stop immediately.
when religious morality is used as a pro-life arguement, i always think of the sanctity of an individuals conscience in regards to their personal relationship with God.
no one is going to stand with that woman on that great & terrible day of judgement. i would think everyone would have enough to deal handling the problems with thier own conscience.
November 20, 2004 - 03:26 PM on November 20th, 2004
The Bush Administration has already tied abstinence education and anti-abortion rules in their aid policies in Africa, so this is no surprise. My beliefs about abortions are not steadfast (while my beliefs about abstinence-only education are not), but I do object to the treatment of a divisive issue in a bill rider.
November 20, 2004 - 04:58 PM on November 20th, 2004
anything to get rid of abortion(and for you people about to jump at me, i don’t mean attacking/killing abortion doctors, i mean within the law) is fine with me, i get sick thinking of the number of babies killed every year, my cousin who was aborted, i was almost aborted..ugh.
November 20, 2004 - 08:43 PM on November 20th, 2004
Hey wally,
We would all be better off if you had been aborted.
November 20, 2004 - 08:44 PM on November 20th, 2004
Wally,
Glad your cousin was aborted too – he probably would have been as big a slope skull as you.
November 20, 2004 - 09:54 PM on November 20th, 2004
181,600
November 20, 2004 - 09:54 PM on November 20th, 2004
181,600
November 20, 2004 - 09:55 PM on November 20th, 2004
onehundered eighty one thousand six hundered.
November 20, 2004 - 09:57 PM on November 20th, 2004
Oh simon you are such a boor. No one will play with you elsewhere?
November 20, 2004 - 10:00 PM on November 20th, 2004
sorry, wrong numbers….Total abortions from1973 to 1998 — 38,010,378 in the United States
November 20, 2004 - 10:01 PM on November 20th, 2004
TAC- If those are stats for the number of abortions, it somehow doen’t jive with the figures given for incest/rape caused abortion. The number is quite a bit higher which leads me to believe that it is a form of birth control and not incest/rape. So sad and so stupid:roll:
November 20, 2004 - 10:02 PM on November 20th, 2004
incest & rape should not be the only reasons for abortions.
November 20, 2004 - 10:02 PM on November 20th, 2004
I bet they were so worried about the deficit spending that they forgot to use a condom:roll:
November 20, 2004 - 10:03 PM on November 20th, 2004
I see your point Peejz. Shiloh, did you see my civil greeting?
November 20, 2004 - 10:04 PM on November 20th, 2004
I did forget to meantion the mothers life. Please forgive me.
November 20, 2004 - 10:05 PM on November 20th, 2004
Wrong on life, WRONG on death, WRONG on the economy,Wrong on sodomites, WRONG on the WOT, Wrong on what people in this country, flyover that is, considers moral.
November 20, 2004 - 10:05 PM on November 20th, 2004
yes I did TAC & i responded in kind.
wouldn’t it be nice if it stayed civil?
November 20, 2004 - 10:06 PM on November 20th, 2004
Peejz. By the Pro-babykillers rational, I should be able to choose not to support a child. I’m just not ready for the responsiblity, right?
November 20, 2004 - 10:06 PM on November 20th, 2004
I will:smile:
November 20, 2004 - 10:06 PM on November 20th, 2004
I think we are on the same page here!
November 20, 2004 - 10:07 PM on November 20th, 2004
It would be boring without you here. Honestly. I don’t necessarly like everyone agreeing all the time. Puts me to sleep/
November 20, 2004 - 10:09 PM on November 20th, 2004
TAC- What I can’t figure out is how it is a womans right to chose???? Last time I checked, no matter how it happened, a woman can not get pregnant without a man….but I digress.
November 20, 2004 - 10:09 PM on November 20th, 2004
perhaps they should make condoms more available. but that would encourage sex. they’re gonna have sx anyway but…what the but i’m looking for?
more than half of marriages end in divorce and the kids are as dysfunctional as mommy and daddy and the generations go on & on.
the problem with this country are fathers.
November 20, 2004 - 10:10 PM on November 20th, 2004
I am being synical, of course, but what about my rights! I just don’t care about my children. They can fend for themselves! If they die, it’s not my fault. I don’t want the responsibility.
November 20, 2004 - 10:12 PM on November 20th, 2004
My goodness! I agree that fathership is a major problem Shiloh! Good point. I think I have to look in the mirror now, search my soul, and ask my wife to take my tempature the bad way.
November 20, 2004 - 10:13 PM on November 20th, 2004
parents transfer their responsibilty all the time. to movies, to tv, to schools to the internet. it’s not easy when everyone has to work and no one is home for dick and jane.
November 20, 2004 - 10:16 PM on November 20th, 2004
Agreed
November 20, 2004 - 10:18 PM on November 20th, 2004
Aughhhh! I cant get over the seething hatred of what the thing Simon puts out! I’m still locating.
November 20, 2004 - 10:20 PM on November 20th, 2004
this is not what i was expecting. what happend to calling me names and lumping me in with your perception of the liberals?
i’m a big fan of Micahel Moore and Al Sharpton and Mao? Hitler was misunderstood – he just needed a puppy.
so there.
November 20, 2004 - 10:21 PM on November 20th, 2004
Oh that is a load of bullshit shiloh!(24) Come back when you can make sense!
What a load of crap!
November 20, 2004 - 10:22 PM on November 20th, 2004
Simon is so over the top that it has to be a ruse to get it all out into the open so it can be discussed. he Can’t believe the horrible crap he says. threatening him is futile – it feeds his purpose -whatever it may be.
November 20, 2004 - 10:23 PM on November 20th, 2004
Shiloh, what exactly are you getting at? .30? Are we starting again?
November 20, 2004 - 10:24 PM on November 20th, 2004
can you be a little helpsul on exactly what you feel is bullshit?
heck, even tac agreed that fathers are failing in this culture.
talk to me
November 20, 2004 - 10:25 PM on November 20th, 2004
Im not threating him. Just sending color copies of his website, along with comments about wanting to wash his face with the blood of our great Soldiers, along with his address to his local Vetrans of Forigen Wars lodges.
November 20, 2004 - 10:26 PM on November 20th, 2004
32 – it was all tounge in cheek. you seem much more approachable today as opposed to yesterday.
i was going over the top to demonstrate that the places we sometimes get to in rebutting each other can be ridiculous.
November 20, 2004 - 10:26 PM on November 20th, 2004
Fathers, should be Dads. Not sperm donors. Men and Women alike need to go back to the roles God intended for them.
November 20, 2004 - 10:28 PM on November 20th, 2004
36. Yes I am more approachable today. Sometimes your hatred for the Right creeps in, and it brings out the worst in me.
November 20, 2004 - 10:33 PM on November 20th, 2004
To blame all the problems on the males is just ridiculous. It takes 2 to make or brake a relationship. Condoms are given out for free at your local health clinic. (must be indigent to get them for free)
If you need to go get an abortion in todays day and age, you are just a fool.
November 20, 2004 - 10:34 PM on November 20th, 2004
i agree with your 37, but there’s where it get a bit dicey. you have to take the whole package when it comes to what God intended, and the religious right doesn’t want to abort the unborn but will kill 14 year old retarded kids that commit crimes.
so i get from that that it depends on who you kill that makes it alright or not alright.
November 20, 2004 - 10:36 PM on November 20th, 2004
First,,Condoms only work during the school year. Second, doesn’t the OT and the NT support death for certian crimes?
November 20, 2004 - 10:37 PM on November 20th, 2004
if you’re following my posts with TAC, you’ll understand when i say the fathers were made the head of the household and that comes with all the respopnsibilities that God inteneded. what makes it ok to abort a marriage at the drop of a hat anyway?
November 20, 2004 - 10:37 PM on November 20th, 2004
TAC- what does 41 mean?
November 20, 2004 - 10:39 PM on November 20th, 2004
Jesus never proposed a death penalty on anyone that i remember. seperating fiends from society has always been the practice, tho.
Mary Magdeline received pardon. what would George Bush & Alberto Gonzalez have done with her if she did what she did under that law in Texas?
November 20, 2004 - 10:39 PM on November 20th, 2004
Geeez! I’m agreeing with you again! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Marriage was never intended to be easy. Today, Americans are use to instant gratification and a severe lack of following thru with thins when it get’s rough.
November 20, 2004 - 10:41 PM on November 20th, 2004
Did Mary M do anything the OT would require death? Would Jesus contradict the Word? I think not Shiloh. A murder, a rapist, a child molester does not deserve a second chance.
November 20, 2004 - 10:42 PM on November 20th, 2004
that’s the way to engage me on your 31, altho i must admit you haven’t completely persuaded me to your point of view.
ignoring me after judging me full of bullshit usally does it for me, but for some reason, not tonight.
any other reasoned arguements to offer?
November 20, 2004 - 10:45 PM on November 20th, 2004
43. Sorry Peejz, didn’t see your post. The condom comment is just me being cynical. Did I spell that right? Cynical?
November 20, 2004 - 10:46 PM on November 20th, 2004
46 Jesus to not come to break the law -( yes what she did carried a death sentence)but to cto complete the law. a testament is an agreement. he brought a new agreement & understanding to us.
otherwise, peejz would have to leave the village every month while her special friend visited.
November 20, 2004 - 10:47 PM on November 20th, 2004
Shiloh, Do you think that Jesus would want the Church to see to the poor, or the Government?
November 20, 2004 - 10:48 PM on November 20th, 2004
why the snyde comment to Peejz?
November 20, 2004 - 10:49 PM on November 20th, 2004
49. I think that I am following you about “completion”.
November 20, 2004 - 10:50 PM on November 20th, 2004
the Church is supposed to do it but it has failed completely. as Lenny Bruce said, “the Cardinal of New York has a ring on his finger worth $25,000 and 4 blocks away there’s 11 Puerto Ricans living in one room, hungry.
the state had to step in, or the streets would be littered with the dying, etc.
November 20, 2004 - 10:52 PM on November 20th, 2004
I disagree. The Church, given that uncle sugar releases the control of such issues, would do great. At the risk of offending someone, I must ask for a distinction from Protastant and the Chatholic Church.
November 20, 2004 - 10:53 PM on November 20th, 2004
TAC i assume you’re talking about my 47. well, after all she did say i was completely full of shit.
funny you should bring that one up. when i pressed ’send it’, i thought to myself, ‘now that’s arrogant and condescending’
November 20, 2004 - 10:53 PM on November 20th, 2004
Honestly, if 11 PR’s are living under one roof, hungry, they made a bad mistake, somewhere.
November 20, 2004 - 10:54 PM on November 20th, 2004
55. I see.
November 20, 2004 - 10:55 PM on November 20th, 2004
Okay, I must be missing something in this proposed legislation.
To wit:
The proposal is that Congress pass a law that would prevent the government from withholding funds from a hospital/doctor that refuses to perform abortions.
We are not withholding money from facilities that perform abortions. We are preventing discrimination against those doctors who won’t perform an abortion.
How is this taking away a woman’s right to kill her unborn child? Nowhere in the proposed legislation, or at least what I’ve seen of it, is anything that would in any way restrict the right to choose.
So what’s the big deal?
-cjb-
November 20, 2004 - 10:55 PM on November 20th, 2004
i don’t think there’s any great distiction between Catholic and Protestant.
God made the nations and man created the denominations.
November 20, 2004 - 10:57 PM on November 20th, 2004
56- TAC you and I agree on that. But I have tried to explain to shiloh that people need to take responsibility for themselves ad shiolh always seems to feel that the government needs to step in. The government did not impregnate them though did they?
November 20, 2004 - 10:59 PM on November 20th, 2004
Exactly. And a man runs that church. There is only one Bible. One word of GOD. And His Word, and rules, cannot be changed. Some dominations say, “hey, it’s ok for homosexuals to be preachers”, some say “you must have forgiveness from this man”. These are violations, and I wonder who they serve.
November 20, 2004 - 11:01 PM on November 20th, 2004
peejz – re: 60 – if the playing field was equal i would agree with you 100%.
educational & employment opportunities favor certain people while discriminating against some others.
November 20, 2004 - 11:02 PM on November 20th, 2004
61 – the modern Church appears to mostly serve itself.
November 20, 2004 - 11:02 PM on November 20th, 2004
60. I am in total agreement. I was born poor, and fought like a cornered badger to make sure my family wasn’t. Long hard strugle, but I did it. Some people can’t. I know this is sad, but there will always be poor people. Some are borne without the skills and determination to be otherwise, some are just lazy.
November 20, 2004 - 11:04 PM on November 20th, 2004
63, What are you talking about. Oppertunity is there for anybody. Mabe not 20 years ago, but anyone,I say again, anyone, in the o’le USofA can get an education. BTW, I recieved a level playing field.
November 20, 2004 - 11:05 PM on November 20th, 2004
Sorry 62.
November 20, 2004 - 11:06 PM on November 20th, 2004
There is only one Church.
November 20, 2004 - 11:06 PM on November 20th, 2004
you said you were being cynical when you talked about condoms in school. you’re not in favor?
November 20, 2004 - 11:08 PM on November 20th, 2004
No. Sorry Shiloh, but that is not properly addressing the issue, it is promoting it. If they want to have sex, fine, but not with my taxdollars. Could you see the Chruch giving out condoms? I think not.
November 20, 2004 - 11:09 PM on November 20th, 2004
67 – wherever 2 of more are gathered together.
i live in Montana and i’m here to tell ya that racism is alive & well. take a vacation trip to northern Idaho if you have any further questions about a level playing field.
November 20, 2004 - 11:11 PM on November 20th, 2004
plenty of pastors give out condoms – especially in the cities. (not Catholics). basically it’s a damned if you do & damned if you don’t.
talk about the definition of ‘dilema’.
November 20, 2004 - 11:11 PM on November 20th, 2004
Take a trip to Alabama. I must tell you Shiloh, around here, the vast majority of racism is at the feet of African Americans.
November 20, 2004 - 11:15 PM on November 20th, 2004
71. No matter what the situation or circumstance or dilema, those “pastors” should do what is right. Condoning sin is sin itself.
November 20, 2004 - 11:18 PM on November 20th, 2004
i’m sure there’s black and white and brown and yellow and red and every other color that people can be racism.
proves the point, but in your example a black business owner won’t hire the white applicant
November 20, 2004 - 11:20 PM on November 20th, 2004
dealing with reality is different than condoning sin. if some kid says there gonna do it, saying no may not be anough. saying – if you’re gonna do it no matter what. here’s protection.
i understand you’re point and in a perfect world you’d be right.
November 20, 2004 - 11:21 PM on November 20th, 2004
Gees! You try it around here. If you got hired on, you would be run off in a week. But the lack of Black Business owners around here is an education problem, in which I have no sympothy for them. They have every oppertunity for education there is, better than for the whites, and free, most of the time, at that!
November 20, 2004 - 11:27 PM on November 20th, 2004
I don’t think the Bible teaches compromise on sin. I just disagree.
November 20, 2004 - 11:27 PM on November 20th, 2004
would you agree that educational opportunties are perhaps different in middle class vs a poverty ridden community? then you say – why poverty. i donlt know but as you said, the poor are always with us.
November 20, 2004 - 11:30 PM on November 20th, 2004
They, the poor communities, have just as many oppertunities as we do. I don’t feel sorry for them. I do feel sorry for the people who are not able to perform. Not the lazy and unmotivated. There are schools all over the inner cities, community colleges and universitys.
November 20, 2004 - 11:32 PM on November 20th, 2004
you’re right – it doesn’t teach compromise. forgiveness is taught as being done 7 times 70.
if it were a day equals 20 times an hour or every 3 minutes.
November 20, 2004 - 11:35 PM on November 20th, 2004
It’s been a plesant chat Shiloh. Get alot futher this way. I gotta get up early for Church. Goodnight.
November 20, 2004 - 11:35 PM on November 20th, 2004
sure, the lazy people are not what i’m talkin’s about.
the minimum wage barely supports one person. we had this discussion recently. forget marriage or children if you can’t hardly support yourself.
November 20, 2004 - 11:36 PM on November 20th, 2004
nite TAC
November 20, 2004 - 11:36 PM on November 20th, 2004
Hey there guys!
November 20, 2004 - 11:36 PM on November 20th, 2004
Once again…. education, education, education
November 20, 2004 - 11:38 PM on November 20th, 2004
nite,, see ya. Hello, and goodnight sis.
November 20, 2004 - 11:38 PM on November 20th, 2004
75- I agree with you there shiloh
November 20, 2004 - 11:38 PM on November 20th, 2004
good evening navy sis.
may i take it that you’re a woman with a relative in the service?
November 20, 2004 - 11:38 PM on November 20th, 2004
nite TAC!
November 20, 2004 - 11:40 PM on November 20th, 2004
Yes I have a brother and an uncle in the Navy and a cousin in the Marines.
November 20, 2004 - 11:42 PM on November 20th, 2004
i was in the navy when the dinosoars were still roaming around.
on another subject, i hate talking about abortion. after all i don’t have a uterus so i may not be able to realate on a personal level.
November 20, 2004 - 11:43 PM on November 20th, 2004
Dinosaurs huh? I know it is a complicated subject.
November 20, 2004 - 11:44 PM on November 20th, 2004
Where were you stationed?
November 20, 2004 - 11:48 PM on November 20th, 2004
basic in SanDiego as well as electrons and Radioman ‘A’ school. i wanted to get submarines and wound up in a sub squadron in Norfolk, Vs on a sub rescue ship. only 79 juys for a full compliment. i loved it
November 20, 2004 - 11:50 PM on November 20th, 2004
Wow, sounds interesting. How funny, my brother is stationed in Norfolk. He’s a photographer on the U.S.S George Washington. He did basic training in Evanston, Il.
November 20, 2004 - 11:53 PM on November 20th, 2004
This doesn’t make sense.
“Yet, what is going to happen to a woman’s right to choose if health care providers, doctors, hospitals, clinics and insurers can tell her they don’t have a right to choose anymore?”
Just because certain doctors have chosen to not perform the abortion doesn’t deny the women the right to go to another and get the abortion. Not all facilities will deny it any more than all women want abortion or don’t want it. There will be plenty of practitioners who will perform the abortion.
I don’t agree with putting it in the spending bill, however I do think government should not be supporting abortion. It is legal to abort or not abort, that doesn’t mean the government should penalize a group of people for believing one way and refusing to do abortions.
November 20, 2004 - 11:53 PM on November 20th, 2004
that ship is a bit bigger than mine was. i’d guess about 5,000 more. it’s a city on the water. what does he take pictures of?
November 20, 2004 - 11:55 PM on November 20th, 2004
evening Shannon – i agree with your assessment. this is just another step on the conservative highway to tell women they know what’s good for them
November 20, 2004 - 11:57 PM on November 20th, 2004
This is true…it’s is just that. There is about 6,000 people on board. He shoots whatever is going on at the time..from people to ship or aircraft. He has a lot of photos on navynewstand.com
November 21, 2004 - 12:01 AM on November 21st, 2004
98 I think she was saying that women can still obtain the abortion from a dr. or healthcare facility and thus not denying a womans right but allowing a doctors right to not have to be penalized for not doing them.
November 21, 2004 - 12:04 AM on November 21st, 2004
That’s just the way I took it, so forgive me Shannon.
November 21, 2004 - 12:05 AM on November 21st, 2004
every explanation i’ve read of this bill includes convoluted (to me) language. the one you just fave was the clearest i’ve seen. the New York Times could use an editor like you.
November 21, 2004 - 12:16 AM on November 21st, 2004
102- who is that to?
November 21, 2004 - 12:19 AM on November 21st, 2004
you
November 21, 2004 - 12:20 AM on November 21st, 2004
compliment?
November 21, 2004 - 12:23 AM on November 21st, 2004
It’s funny.. I agree with most of your posts on this.
November 21, 2004 - 12:25 AM on November 21st, 2004
i read the Times story & the Associated Press story and came away shaking my head thinking i was too simple to understand.
then along comes post 100 & it fell into place. thanks.
November 21, 2004 - 12:27 AM on November 21st, 2004
106
don’t say that in front of the others. guilt by association is a driving force in too many arguements in these itsy bitsy boxes.
November 21, 2004 - 12:33 AM on November 21st, 2004
I guess I am naive, so I didn’t know if you were being facetious or sincere.
November 21, 2004 - 12:35 AM on November 21st, 2004
my sense of humour is pretty dry. i don’t use the yellow faces, thinking i can get across my intent with words alone, but i know it doesn’t always work out.
that’s when more words are needed to clarify bad wording.
word.
November 21, 2004 - 12:36 AM on November 21st, 2004
Well I do agree 75. I have 4 children and I do teach them that abstinence is the best thing but I also know that peer pressure and society has an influence as well and tell them I that if they find themselves giving in, that they use protection.
November 21, 2004 - 12:40 AM on November 21st, 2004
that seems like a sensible approach to reality. too many people get hung up on the priciple that they ignore reality and realize that baby steps may be the best way to achieve the results they strive for.
they reject the good while fighting for the perfect.
November 21, 2004 - 12:42 AM on November 21st, 2004
I speak to them from own experiences.
November 21, 2004 - 12:43 AM on November 21st, 2004
no better way to teach.
i’m calling it a nite. good talking to you.
nite
November 21, 2004 - 12:44 AM on November 21st, 2004
You too shiloh, nite!
November 24, 2004 - 05:22 AM on November 24th, 2004
If these leftwing lunatics want abortion so bad then let it come out of their own pocket and not out of the pockets of all the american people.These liberal hypocrites talk about cruel and unusual punishment that the death penalty is for vile murderers.They have it easy compared to the cruel and unsual punishment of abortion.Nobody that faces the death penalty will be ripped apart limb from limb or burned alive with saline acid.We can’t talk about the cruelty of terrorists when the act of these abortions are far worse.These liberal scum are worse than terrorists.These babies have committed no crimes so that is shedding innocent blood.As much as I am against abortion I say let the liberals have at it.Maybe they will kill off their own kind and there won’t be any liberals left.Any liberal hypocrite out there that think they are religious needs to think about the very basic golden rule of treating others how you would like to be treated.Do any of you hypocrites wish you had been aborted?Maybe you had better think about it before you rush to have another one.What am I saying,liberals don’t have a brain to think with.Well at least pretend then.Oh yeah,also the bible says that you will reap what you sow.So if you kill then you will be killed.If we kill terrorists for their acts murder then all murderers should be killed.It doesn’t take a genius to figure that out.This goes for all liberals no matter what the party affiliation.