This week’s polls asks the question:
Do you support or oppose building a 2,000 mile long fence along the border between the U.S. and Mexico to limit illegal immigration?
Your Options include:
Support
Oppose
Unsure
You can participate in the poll in the upper left of the site.
This post is open for discussion on the topic.
View previous poll results.
Related In The News:
Statehouses Take Up Immigration Legislation – BreitBart.com
Spanish Media Organized Nationwide Mass Protests – CBS2.com
Plans for US-Mexico border fence draw fire – Reuters
U.S. Ends Undocumented Immigrant Stings – Breitbart.com
Mexican illegals vs. American voters – WaPo: OpEd
Immigration debate triggers more protests – USA Today
Related In Blogs:
Brian David Crane with Not A Policy Wonk But…, states: “As the debate surrounding illegal immigration really heats up here in the States, I think just about every member of Congress and Pres. Bush are missing the underlying points surrounding the topic…”
It’s Happening Here with Illegal Immigration: Clear and Present Threat to America, states: “Illegal immigration: might that be the catalyst that brings down this country, even before the elites in the Federal Reserve completely destroy the value of our currency?”
State of Flux with The Solution To Illegal Immigration Is Legal Immigration, states: “Many of the jobs that illegal immigrants are performing would disappear if we have a sensible trade policy. Let start with ending the agriculture subsidy. It is much better to import fruit from Mexico than importing illegal aliens.”
The Hutch Report with Mexico Border Fence, states: Everyone in the US is an immigrant in one way or another and while we do need to set some type of boundaries on immigrations, the last thing in the world we should do is try and stop all people from immigrating to the United States.”
True American Conservative with illegal immigration…, states: “After decades of political platitudes about illegal immigration, the current bill before Congress gives Americans a choice. Enforcing our borders will entail costs to all Americans. Are those costs worth bearing? One thing is certain: The costs of inaction are far greater.”
RightWingNutHouse with STIRRING THE MELTING POT, asks: “Is there really anything we can do to solve the illegal immigration problem in the United States?“
Does anyone here HONESTLY think a fence will keep migrant workers out of the States????
LOL…
Look how well the Berlin Wall worked. not only did “nobody” get past it, but it made Berlin the envy of the world.
SF- It is a great start to curbing it!
San Fran. What can I say? You’re ignorance is beyond contemplation. Noone believes that a fence will stop the flow of, repeat after me, ILLEGAL ALIENS. What it will do is slow them down and channelize them to where we might have a chance to at least deter them from breaking US immigration laws and apply to come here legally.
Want to know who all of the illegals being here hurt? They hurt all of the low or non skilled labor already here. Want to know why McDonalds pays their workers minimum wage? Because they can. Want to know why you get lousy service at most McDonald’s? Because they do pay minimum wage. Go into an In and Out Burger sometime. That’s if you can get through the door. They’re always packed with customers. The menu doesn’t include 4 types of chicken sandwiches, or 3 types of salads. It includes Burgers, fries, sodas and milk shakes. You have to wait for your order. The food isn’t high end like a Fuddrucker’s. It’s on a par with McDonald’s. However the service is great. WHY? Because they start their employees at $9/hour. ILLEGAL ALIENS drive down the wage scale for entry level positions. They also loiter on street corners leaving piles of trash, and intimidating people in home improvement center parking lots. Home Depot has taken to having them removed from their parking lots, but they still line the entrance drives and almost cause accidents. A recent study, by I believe it was Harvard, showed that if all of the illegal labor were removed from this country, the average pay earned by a high school drop out would increase by around $2/hour.
ILLEGAL ALIENS are also a huge burden on our educational, health care and correctional systems. Aren’t liberals always complaining that the schools are overcrowded? A local TV station showed a school bus pulling up to a stop 20 ft inside the US border and being filled with kids streaming over the border with their book bags. If the children of ILLEGAL ALIENS only increase the average class size by 10% but require twice the attention of American kids due to the language barrier, that causes the teacher to have to work almost 50% more than if they weren’t there. That also means that the children who are supposed to be there are NOT getting the education that their parents are actually paying for.
Because the Mexican government has told the ILLEGALS ALIENS coming here from Mexico that in order to utilize the American Medical system without paying, they should call an ambulance and go to the emergency room whenever they feel ill. This has caused many hospitals to have to close their ERs due to the expense of the unpaid bills. It also causes those that are open to frequently have excessively and potentially lethally long waits.
While the ILLEGAL ALIEN population in this country represents only 3 – 4% of the overall population, it represents over 20% of the prison population. Coyotes (human smugglers) have running gun battles on the freeways not only killing each other but also endangering the lives of innocent bystanders. One illegal alien, who had previously been deported for being a felon , recently led police on a high speed chase in three different car jacked vehicles, shot one officer and then crashed the third vehicle into an irrigation canal. He was arrested and tested positive for Crack. A month later while at the court house for a preliminary hearing, he attacked a Sheriff’s Deputy with a shank, stabbing him 10 times in the face before the elevator they were on stopped at the next available floor.
Closing the border would also have a direct effect on the ability of illegal drug producers to smuggle their product into this country. We currently have a huge Meth problem here in Arizona. The vast majority of the Meth confiscated is being brought in from Mexico.
If you think that trying to stem the tide of illegal immigration into this country is pointless, then you have no clue as to the overall cost to the law abiding population of this country.
Of course with your recent referendum to ban private firearms ownership, I’m certain that you’ll be getting to see a larger number of the more nefarious members of the ILLEGAL ALIENS as they realize how ripe for the picking the citizens of San Franciso have made themselves.
BTW I failed to mention that the Illegal who stabbed the Sheriff’s Deputy wasn’t working as a janitor or landscaper. He was earning $19/hour as a heavy equipment operator using fake id. The same fake ID that’s a felony (class IV felony state of Delaware) to use to buy beer if you’re underaged that Senator Feinstein wants to make legal for ILLEGAL ALIENS to use to commit identity fraud.
“Does anyone here HONESTLY think a fence will keep migrant workers out of the States????
LOL:
Look how well the Berlin Wall worked. not only did “nobody”get past it, but it made Berlin the envy of the world.”
This too easy…:lol:
Yeah, it will. Just ask the Israelis how fences work.
The Berlin wall worked very well. People couldn’t walk or run across the border with it, like they do across our border now. And the BW wasn’t built to keep people out (your logic is faulty again because your example is not comparable).
And we already are the envy of the world, that’s why they all want to come her! (duh)
I don’t want to be unkind, SF Liberal, but isn’t it time for your medication?
#3: “San Fran. What can I say? You’re ignorance is beyond contemplation.”
That’s why I conjectured the other day that SF Liberal was posing, playing. Could anyone really be that consistently:
a. wrong
b. illogical
c. ignorant
Inquiring minds would like to know!
The mind as a Liberal is being terribly wasted…
build the fence but someday the fence will be used to keep you inside the hell that is coming, where is bin laden when you need him? this will become a nation of the poor of Mexico with the Mexican oligarchies who will use non Hispanics as the enemies of Mexico and we all know why and what will happen when laws are used to kill people, i say build the wall but also use it for protection against our enemies south of the border, put a MG EACH 25 FEET AND MAKE IT 10 MILES DEEP. But that will never happen so get ready to understand what happened to the Jews 65 years ago you are next.
Fred Dawes;
When is this Doom and Gloom you’re always talking about going to be here? Did you have 5,000 cans of tuna in your basement in December 1999?
No he didn’t Zelda, he was in prison being raped:wink:
I guess that would explain a lot.
Build a fence and lets declare our independence from mexico and send back all those illegal aleins:mad:
stop prison rape bush needs you! by the way in the new world order we will have no rape! what a great place, the system of government or as i like to call it the system of rape! is coming apart, if you know what i mean? so buy food and buy many young girls you can pick one up in Mexico for about 3 u.s. dollars, the going rape rage-out rape system is now moving into your stores as i write this right now! bush just called me and told me to stop with the rape! or i will be sent to a new cell with my best friend Saddam who i did rape some time ago!
look people, “see it for what it is”, not what you want it to be, the BS In this non country is funny as hell to me! don’t listen to guys who want this nation really dead stand up!,
wait the Mexican police are at the door must go now call the number you know it!
the carload of carrion we left in Alexandria Saturday was mentioned briefly on the local news but not at all on the national news. the reason for the downplay. I suspect is not that sextuple killings have become too commonplace to be newsworthy, but that the authorities recognized the racial significance of the thing and decided not to encourage imitation by bush.
A couple of comments…
RE: #3.
FrmrArtyOffcr: I can’t respond to your comments when you put so much into them like you do. Please, if you want me to respond, make it shorter!! I’m sure you have lots of wonderful stuff for me to disprove or counter, but I can’t do that when my eyes are glazing over from reading your mini-novels! Thank you, sir! – BTW – I often avoid “In and Out” because of the long lines, even though they have the BEST fast food burgers in the world!
RE: #5 & #6.
Nice attempted smear there, my friend. But, no, am the real thing – no jokes here. And BTW, most of YOUR political views and opinions would be considered abhorrent to me and other libs. So, we’re both turned off by eithers opinions and beliefs. Get over it.
Regarding the fence, it’s INSANE to think a wall will do anything to stop, or even slow the tide. Water, for example, always flows along the path of least resistance. If you put a barrier in the way, the water will find a way around it.
YOU…JUST…DON’T…GET…IT, they will come here no matter what obstacles you put in front of them. What we need are laws that understand this fact, and work around it to protect the migrants AND to protect American workers. Watch and see, especially after these mass marches, just how popular a fence idea is.
I can almost guarantee to you that an entire border length fence will not be built. The Latinos here in the US just will not stand for it. And, better yet, the political party that backs such an obnoxious idea such as a fence, will LOSE with the growing Latino voting population.
Call me all the names you want, gnash your teeth and tear at your clothes, but I know I’m right on this. Watch, no fence will be built. Amnesty law, here we come!
RE: #7.
OBVIOUSLY, this man is not playing with a full deck of cards. We have plenty of these types here in SF. I’m well educated in spotting them. There is no need to be surprised by what this man says, and there is no need to be offended. He probably can’t help what he says.
All you guys lets get right down to what is happening inside this nutty non nation for years you didn’t care about anything but your own life and now you see it coming down to a bad end, didn’t i tell you 20 years ago it would end like this in a coming race and civil war? “people i have been beaten by all sides”, called a red, called a racists, call all kinds of names, and now soon you all will understand that two or ten cultures cannot live side by side and not! have mass upheaval in the future of that nation state, “think not what you can do to the other guy”, but think how you can live past the coming evil mass cultural upheaval. its OK to become a Mexican as bush just told you, but i don’t think the aztlan guys will let you live long in this coming hell. “good Lucy” and good night to the dead.:oops:
see REX -84 SEE FE MA SEE DOD PLANS OF MASS KILLINGS SEE RED CHINA AND THE DEAL WITH MEXICO BY YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT CALLED N.A.F.T.A.
P.S. FOX HAS ORDER HIS ARMY TO MOVE 8 MILLION POOR MEXICAN AND OTHERS FOR THE LONG MARCH ACROSS OUR JOKE OF A BORDER THAT IS WHY BUSH IS TALKING TO FOX TO STOP THIS COMING ATTACK, BUSH WILL NOT STOP IT SO WATCH OUT FOR REX-84.:sad:
Re 13:
You have a point in that we do have a growing Latino voting population, which is great.
However, you keep saying that it is an obnoxious idea to build this fence; we should grant amnesty to the already “ILLEGAL” immigrants here and reform our immigration laws. Well, if we grant amnesty like we did when Reagan was in office, all that goes to show the illegal immigrants is to continue breaking our laws and someday, within 20 yrs, you too will be granted amnesty. Since you seem to be full of such wonderful ideas and opinions (*hint of sarcasm*), how would you specifically reform our current immigration policy in order to successfully end our current issues with illegal immigration?
SF Liberal shows once again, with post #13, that he is incapable of dealing with logic, truth, or reality. FAO writes good posts, long posts, with lots of information. The rest of us apparently appreciate them, but SF Liberal does not have an attention span long enough to read and understand them.
What SF Liberal apparently doesn’t understand is that those calling for immigration reform, like myself, know that a systems approach is what will solve the problem, not just one piece (like building a wall).
Here’s the systems approach:
1. Turn off the magnet that draws them here. End the bennies and the freebies. Fine employers $10,000 per day per peron for every illegal they hire. Put a few businesses out of business. Good. No amnesty, not now, never. We did that in 1986, and it only brought more. Been there, done that, no way.
2. Increase the Border Patrol. Send National Guard units to the border. If necessary, build a fence in certain sections. Heck, I’ll sign up to go back into the California National Guard just for that if they’ll take me at my age.
3. End motor voter, clamp down on election fraud, reducing the value of the illegals to the Left.
4. Amend the Constitution so that children of illegals are not granted citizenship.
5. Start enforcing the laws we already have. No, you can’t just round up and deport 12 million illegals all at once, but you can make a start. Every time they contact law enforcement and are picked up, ship them back. Eventually those numbers will dwindle.
This is what needs to be done, and must be done. But those who don’t care about traditional America, who are too greedy or stupid to want to do what’s right, are doing their best to prevent it.
16–Every time they contact law enforcement and are picked up, ship them back. Eventually those numbers will dwindle.
Do you think that would stop illegals from reporting crime? If they know they will be sent home if they call the police to help someone else, they probably wouldn’t call. How would we deal with that?
Re: 17
They don’t call as it is!
I have the perfect example. The other day I was on the freeway when a lady in a suv began drifting into the the center divide. Eventually she hit it so hard that she couldn’t go forward anymore. Trying to be a good citizen I pulled over to see if she was OK. In the interim of all this, I called the police to let them know what had happened. I got out of my car and began talking to the lady. I soon realized she didn’t understand a word of English. I told her that I had called the police and they would come and help her. As soon as I said the police, no joke, she threw her car into reverse moved off the center divide and then proceeded to merge back into traffic and exit at the next off ramp. Maybe I am just assuming here, but I figured she must have been illegal and didn’t want to get into trouble with the law. Either that or she was unlicensed with no insurance, which is a whole other issue that needs to be dealt with as well.
17; What I meant actually was simpler. Beat Cops run into illegals often, depending on the venue. It used to be that if Officers determined that they had an illegal, all they had to do was take the subject to the County Jail, fill out a 1-page immigration hold form, and the next time the INS bus came through, that subject would be on their way home. Not anymore. They won’t acvcpet them, and if they are arrested for other minor crimes, they just release them anyway.
If that changed, that alone would have a measurable effect.
Illegals do not trust or like the police, and it is easy to understand why. The police, along with the rest of the justice system in Mexico, are generally corrupt.
Mexicans have zero respect for the police, and when they get here the vast majority avoid all possible contact with police. Jackie23′s experience is typical.
I see what you’re saying, Robert. Thanks for clarifying.
San Fran Sam..
Watch, no fence will be built. Amnesty law, here we come!
Why does this make you sooooo happy? I’m curious. It seems odd, that an unarmed invasion of our soveriengnty gives you so much glee.
Your right though, a fence is not feasible..what is are regular and plentiful army, marine, reserve and national guard units patrolling at regular intervals with SHOOT ON SIGHT orders. This is an INVASION and we should be able to defend ourselves against it.
In furtherence of this, ANY employer (or private resident) who is found to be hiring an illegal alien will be fined….heavily.
All assistance (health care, welfare, education, etc.) will be restricted to LEGAL US citizens only.
done, next?
And if Bush and the republicans don’t get on the right side of this, they WILL lose my vote. If electing a socialist government in this country is going to be the only way to wake the American people up…so be it.
Unlike assholes like Baldwin and the other chicken shits, if a socialist (democrat) government is elected in this country, I can and will leave (unlike Baldwin, I speak 4 languages, and can get along quite well in dozens of countries).
I, as a liberal, would not object to increasing border patrol along Mexican border.
Even when adding some additional military strength, I would still not object.
I flat out think a fence is a silly idea that would be a tremendous waste of money.
But, by all means, lets put some more muscle down there along the border.
no objections there.
RE: #22.
Why does this make you sooooo happy? I’m curious. It seems odd, that an unarmed invasion of our soveriengnty gives you so much glee.
Glee? You might be reading me wrong a little bit there, not happy at the current situation. People are dying to get here for a chance at a better life. Their deaths are nothing to be happy about in the least.
Unlike assholes like Baldwin and the other chicken shits, if a socialist (democrat) government is elected in this country, I can and will leave (unlike Baldwin, I speak 4 languages, and can get along quite well in dozens of countries).
Better start packing your bags. We already live in a quasi-socialist state. Social Safety Net programs already make up more than half our spending, and we have had major social programs like S.Security, Medicare, Medicaid for decades.
yes, quasi.. thanks to FDR and other assholes.
However, compared to the rest of the world, we are still a damn sight better.
If, however, a cut-and-run, bury your head in the sand, PC, free money for the poor, president or congress is elected.
See Ya
Adios
Zai Jien
Bon Voyage
Auf Wiedersehen
Vaarwel
arrivederci
What if Senator Clinton is elected President?
I don’t think she would be. What respect she did have has been lost, even by people like Susan Sarandon. I read a quote by SS the other day that said something about her not liking Clinton anymore because of the way she portrays herself and the battles she chooses to fight. When I find that quote, I’ll post it here.
24
social safety net? It’s a FUCKING HAMMOCK.
time to cut it down.