They Compromised At Americas Expence
The Senate reached a compromise on the illegal immigration issue. Basically they gave away the farm!
The compromise creates a tiered system that gives preference to illegals who have been in the United States longer and have established roots in their communities:
” Illegals in the United States less than two years would be required to leave immediately. If caught once, they would be subject to a misdemeanor, and if caught twice they would be charged with a felony. About 2 million to 3 million people fall into this category.
” Illegals in the United States between two and five years would have go to one of 16 ports of entry in the United States, determined by the U.S. Visit program, and declare themselves. They would be given a temporary visa and allowed back to their U.S. residences immediately. Once in the United States, they could apply for the citizenship path spelled out in the McCain-Kennedy bill. About 3 million to 4 million people fall into this category.
” Illegals who could prove they have been in the United States for more than five years would immediately be given guest worker status and would get on the 11-year path to citizenship. They would not have to declare themselves as guest workers. This path would be open to about 5 million illegals living in the United States.
“While it admittedly is not perfect, the choice we have to make is whether the bill is better than no bill. And I think that is decisive,” said Specter, who supported the Democrat-favored bill.
Actually Senator Specter, it would have been better to have waited and done the right thing for the citizens of the country..
As was pointed out at NewsBusters,
I’ve suggested that deporting illegals seems at least as practicable as administering the amnesty program. In the same piece in which Pinkerton’s quote appears, I put it this way:
“[D]eporting illegal immigrants is much more feasible than the elaborate process the amnesty crowd proposes. Under the amnesty plan, the same 11-12 million illegals would have to be identified and located. They would have to be tested to determine if they had attained English proficiency, monitored for over a decade to see that they sought and maintained jobs, paid their fines, etc. If we can do all that, why couldn’t we put the same people on buses to the border or planes to overseas locations?”
This is a very good point…who is going track these people down? Who is going to verify the information?
This is nothing more than the Senate ignoring the wishes of the voters. This is amnesty.
April 6, 2006 - 02:38 PM on April 6th, 2006
Where’s the fence all you RightVoicers were dying to see built?
April 6, 2006 - 04:09 PM on April 6th, 2006
Flush this bill down the toilet ’cause that is where it belongs.
The House bill was not 100% but it is good. Too many of these Senators are elitists who want the cheap labor (which is actually not cheap, but subsidized by the taxpayers). They are not representing the majority of their constituents. They are not acting in the best interests of the U.S.
EVERY Senator who voted for this bill should immediately resign and go home.
Skummm…
April 6, 2006 - 04:51 PM on April 6th, 2006
That’s strange, I feel kind of good about the bill.
God Bless America, and the moderates in power who still retain the ability to compromise to reach a consensus!!
April 6, 2006 - 09:26 PM on April 6th, 2006
the fact is soon we the people will be the illegals inside aztlan that is why we see the great compromise it will help with the real aims of our non government to dismantle our rights. the fact is preference is just a word that means racists for Mexico. and who will enforce the removal of Mexican and other from this country? “no one”, the fact is our non government is being controlled by others who are not part of our political and culture ways of life, if you can’t see that you are a fool.
but this is what happens when you hand your farm over to the guy who wants you dead.
moderates help Hitler and the REDS Come to power.
Robert watch the back door its come.
April 6, 2006 - 10:17 PM on April 6th, 2006
San Fran, I will give you a 5 word argument that will fully justify the fence and will not even touch the topic of illegal aliens. Those words? Crystal Meth, Cocaine, Heroin, and Marijuana. The largest source for all of these ILLEGAL DRUGS is MEXICO. Smugglers are smugglers and they aren’t finicky about what they smuggle. Perhaps you live so high in your ivory tower that you don’t see what’s going on down here in the real world.
If the Illegal Aliens are so anxious to work in low paying jobs here, why do they make up over 20% of our prison population versus approx. 4% of the general population?
In the past week, there have been 2 drop houses in Phoenix busted with over 150 illegals living in them waiting to be transported across the country. There are constantly murders occurring throughout the Phoenix area of illegals by other illegals. They become involved in illegal activities that they think of as business as usual from their native countries. Examples include Cock and dog fighting, and running unlicensed slaughter houses. These things are all considered normal in third world countries and they see no reason to follow our laws about them. We also have one of the highest auto theft rates in the country. As well as the highest identity theft rate in the US.
Maybe the fence won’t stop every illegal or smuggler trying to enter the US, but it sure might discourage a few of them. Even if all it does is channel them all into one area, it will make enforcement of our borders easier. BTW they have found a number of illegals of arabic descent sneaking into this country. 9-11 only took 19, we have an average of 10,000 illegals sneak into this country every 24 hours. Does it take another 3,000 killed in another terrorist attack to remind you why we need to know and control who is in this country?
April 7, 2006 - 06:24 AM on April 7th, 2006
“That’s strange, I feel kind of good about the bill.”
Me too. This bill won’t change anything it is a total joke.
April 7, 2006 - 06:29 AM on April 7th, 2006
FrmrArtyOffcr;
“I will give you a 5 word argument that will fully justify the fence and will not even touch the topic of illegal aliens. Those words? Crystal Meth, Cocaine, Heroin, and Marijuana. The largest source for all of these ILLEGAL DRUGS is MEXICO.â€
As long as there is demand for these drugs, no fence or “war on drugs”is going to stop them from coming into our country. No fence on the Mexican border is going to stop my supply of crack.
April 7, 2006 - 06:55 AM on April 7th, 2006
Zelda- I find it sad that you rejoice in the fact that it is failing. When do you think we should get serious? At what point do you think we should say enough and take care of the problem?
BTW FAO- Chrystal meth is being manufactured right in our own country. There is no need to go outside our borders for it…Hence…take a look at the OTC sections of pharmacy’s across the country.
April 7, 2006 - 07:32 AM on April 7th, 2006
I could see some law being passed that causes more harm than good. So a new law that does nothing is better than some of the alternatives.
I guess our big difference is that I’m not worried or concerned about illegal immigration. It could be where I live versus where other people live. The immigrants I see are only doing 1 of three things. Working, cashing checks, or buying beer. Thus, from my point of view they are good for the economy. Besides, my produce at the supermarket would be more expensive without the cheap labor to harvest it.
April 7, 2006 - 07:48 AM on April 7th, 2006
Zelda,
I have no idea where you live, but many of the illegals where I live are often doing one of 3 things 1. selling drugs (not that bad for the economy or me) 2. killing each other (not really that bad either, if you think about it or 3. killing / robbing / raping innocent people…very bad.
I live in Center City Philadelphia, you probably live in podunkville alabama……..big difference.
We have Mexican, colombian, El Salvadoran, Vietnamese and Chinese GANGS and the associated violence.
April 7, 2006 - 07:54 AM on April 7th, 2006
So as long as we no longer have black slaves, it’s all good.:roll:
No, our produce would not be more expensive to harvest..We offer these farmers legal migrants to work their fields..those legal migrants are saying up front that we want to work here but retain our citizenship in our motherland…Honest and legal. But the farmers found a way to utilize slave labor…If you go after the employer and force them to abide by the law, it will weed out those that are here for the long haul vs those that are here to live off the system..
April 7, 2006 - 07:57 AM on April 7th, 2006
Mike, the stat given is correct by the way..20% of the prison population is made up of illegals!
April 7, 2006 - 07:58 AM on April 7th, 2006
Just how many AL QUEDA terrorists are slipping accross the border while those braindead youths are doing all those stupid protesting?:roll:
April 7, 2006 - 08:06 AM on April 7th, 2006
Zelda- I would rather see them pass the right bill rather than pass bs off as a great piece of work!
April 7, 2006 - 08:21 AM on April 7th, 2006
Okay, you guys seem to have some legitimate problems with illegal immigrants. I would love to see some unbiased data on what the illegals in America are actually doing. How much violent crime are they really responsible for.
Also, what are they in jail for? My guess would be that most of that 20% is locked up just for being here illegally, not for committing a violent crime.
April 7, 2006 - 08:33 AM on April 7th, 2006
15- Zelda you can do research on it..but I do want to say that we do not put someone in our prison system for being here illegally..we a. let the go with a summons for which they don’t show up or b. deport them..hahahah which we just don’t do.
Look up MS-13
also drugs, gangs theft, rape
They are in prison for a number of offences, but violent crime is at the top of the list.
April 7, 2006 - 08:57 AM on April 7th, 2006
“Also, what are they in jail for? My guess would be that most of that 20% is locked up just for being here illegally, not for committing a violent crime.”
Please put the crack pipe down!
This has been discussed already. Peejz is correct: 0% are in jail for being illegal. The laws are simply not being enforced.
April 7, 2006 - 09:28 AM on April 7th, 2006
Hey robert..did you see that report on the NBC nightly news last night about the ballooning re-enlisment numbers in the army right now? You didn’t?
OH, that’s right!!! They did 2 minutes on Katie Couric and the Today show instead.
what libeal media?
April 7, 2006 - 09:30 AM on April 7th, 2006
Found this little tid-bit on BusinessWeek.com…kind of interesting about the Social Security earnings suspense file…might be something to look at to help off set some of the costs these migrants are causing on our strained system…
What are the costs of undocumented immigration in the U.S.?
There are real costs for some states and municipalities, especially for health care and education. But Standard & Poor’s believes that a serious misallocation of these costs among various levels of government is at least as much of a problem as their overall magnitude.
Each year, for example, the U.S. Social Security Administration maintains roughly $6 billion to $7 billion of Social Security contributions in an “earnings suspense file” — an account for W-2 tax forms that cannot be matched to the correct Social Security number. The vast majority of these numbers are attributable to undocumented workers who will never claim their benefits.
If those funds could be earmarked for local support, they would make a sizable dent in education costs. Local school districts are estimated to educate 1.8 million undocumented children. At an average annual cost of $7,500 (averages vary by jurisdiction) per student, the cost of providing education to these children is about $11.2 billion. That means roughly half of the education costs for undocumented immigrant children could be met if these Social Security funds could be redirected.
While this specific reallocation of funds may never occur, the principle, in our opinion, remains valid: Taxes from the spending of undocumented workers can help offset the costs those workers generate. Past studies have shown that even in a state like California, which has the highest number of undocumented immigrants, those immigrants generate approximately one-third to one-half of their estimated costs to the state through sales taxes and other assorted fees. In short, these costs are real, but they could also be more manageable.
April 7, 2006 - 09:37 AM on April 7th, 2006
That’s all well and good, SF, but the point is……why spend anything on them when there are LEGAL US citizens in need of services?
Dosen’t following the law count for anything these days?
April 7, 2006 - 09:42 AM on April 7th, 2006
Why would we redirect Social Security to education? How about we educate the citizens and the legal aliens of this country and let the country of origin for the illegal educate them?
April 7, 2006 - 10:06 AM on April 7th, 2006
…let the country of origin for the illegal educate them?
Peejz, while I’m sure it feels good to say something like that and at first glance “makes sense”….it’s just not an option.
These migrant workers will come here for the money and the jobs NO MATTER WHAT. You could build all the fences and electronic frontiers that your heart desires, but they will STILL come here.
We need practical, realistic solutions for this issue.
April 7, 2006 - 10:12 AM on April 7th, 2006
Practical solutions.
Crushing fines for the hiring of illegals.
Roving patrols at the border with shoot on sight orders
Denial of any benefits without documentation of legal status
are we through yet?
April 7, 2006 - 10:15 AM on April 7th, 2006
..and by the way, San Fran Sam, yes, it’s sad to say…I am french.
April 7, 2006 - 10:20 AM on April 7th, 2006
Crushing fines for the hiring of illegals.
Possible.
Roving patrols at the border with shoot on sight orders
HIGHLY impossible and immoral
Denial of any benefits without documentation of legal status
This already happens, no? Unless the benefit is specifically for migrants.
April 7, 2006 - 10:24 AM on April 7th, 2006
Why is it immoral to shoot to kill invaders?
April 7, 2006 - 10:25 AM on April 7th, 2006
If someone is breaking into your home with intend to rob you, do harm to you, etc.. aren’t you justified in shooting them?
yes, you are.
April 7, 2006 - 10:41 AM on April 7th, 2006
27–Although many illegal immigrants participate in crime, many also do not. You cannot prove just by looking at them that someone by the border is intending to cross and do harm to someone. I gotta side with San Fran here, I think that would be immoral. I understand what you are trying to say with your analogy, but I don’t think it is the proper analogy to make your point.
April 7, 2006 - 10:45 AM on April 7th, 2006
28.
That’s ridiculous. When someone is RUNNING across the border, looking over their shoulders, etc..they are KNOWINGLY invading our sovereignty…why can we not shoot them?
April 7, 2006 - 10:46 AM on April 7th, 2006
if someone is breaking into my home, I’m not waiting to see their “intentions”, I’m puttin’ them down. period.
April 7, 2006 - 10:50 AM on April 7th, 2006
Of course people will keep coming here. We are not doing anything to stop it. We need to allow the INS and border patrols to do their job.
April 7, 2006 - 10:52 AM on April 7th, 2006
29–can you prove they intend to cause harm? We cannot shoot someone because they’re doing something illegal that we don’t want them to do. By that reasoning, I can shoot someone speeding down the road. It’s illegal, they might hurt someone, and I don’t want them to do it. Right?
April 7, 2006 - 10:53 AM on April 7th, 2006
I’m not saying illegal immigrants are not an issue, I’m saying we can’t just shoot them.
April 7, 2006 - 10:56 AM on April 7th, 2006
32. no, but you can shoot someone breaking into your home..and that’s what they are doing.
April 7, 2006 - 10:56 AM on April 7th, 2006
I love how it would be “immoral” to shoot them but somehow there is nothing immoral about using these illegals as slave trade in the country!
Like I said, as long as they are not those black slaves, it’s all good!
April 7, 2006 - 10:58 AM on April 7th, 2006
Why is it immoral to shoot to kill invaders?
Shooting someone breaking into your home, and shooting a migrant crossing the border looking for work are two totally different situations.
April 7, 2006 - 11:01 AM on April 7th, 2006
Uh, not technically. You can shoot someone breaking into your home because it’s property that you own. Like I said, I know where you’re trying to go, but I don’t think your examples support it strongly.
Peejz–I hope you are not implying I support slave trade or use as illegal immigrants solely for cheap labor.
One can think it immoral to shoot without making the jump to them supporting slave labor.
April 7, 2006 - 11:08 AM on April 7th, 2006
Well let me ask you this Alyssa, other than cheap labor, what is the arguement for allowing them to stay? Do you really think they would be here if not for the wages?
April 7, 2006 - 11:13 AM on April 7th, 2006
We cannot shoot someone because they’re doing something illegal that we don’t want them to do. By that reasoning, I can shoot someone speeding down the road. It’s illegal, they might hurt someone, and I don’t want them to do it. Right?
EXACTLY. Where does it stop??
April 7, 2006 - 11:21 AM on April 7th, 2006
“other than cheap labor, what is the argument for allowing them to stay?”
Uhhh…the arguments for allowing them to stay are legion. For starters, it’s physically impossible to remove 9 million people from within our borders. Second, it would be an economic disaster if you suddenly removed 4% of the nations workforce.
“Do you really think they would be here if not for the wages”?
Probably not nearly in such large numbers. But I reckon there would always be those who would come here for better social advancements like better education and health care for their kids, etc.
April 7, 2006 - 11:21 AM on April 7th, 2006
These invaders represent a danger to every man, woman and child in america…not to mention the potential for al qaeda to be among them…..
April 7, 2006 - 11:23 AM on April 7th, 2006
San Fran Sam.. I can replace that 4% REALLY QUICKLY with the lazy fuckhead at the save-a-lot buying up ho-hos, ring dings and strawberry soda with their welfare money.
problem solved.
April 7, 2006 - 11:30 AM on April 7th, 2006
“These invaders represent a danger to every man, woman and child in America:not to mention the potential for al Qaeda to be among them:”
Oh, please – no they do not. Calm down.
Scapegoating mass groups of your fellow human beings is the first mis-step onto a very slippery slope. You would be wise to avoid that kind of over emotional thinking…
April 7, 2006 - 11:33 AM on April 7th, 2006
It would be an economic disaster to remove them/ 4% of our workforce? How can that be when unemployment is at 4.5%? No, it would not hurt the economy…but it speaks volumes that you support slavery!
April 7, 2006 - 11:34 AM on April 7th, 2006
how would it remove 4% of our workforce when I would replace them immediately with the lazy slobs collecting welfare?
April 7, 2006 - 11:36 AM on April 7th, 2006
San Fran..if that’s the case, then why have borders at all?
after all, they are our “fellow human beings”?
we can all sit around and bang on bongos like the homeless do in golden gate park (if you’ve actually been there, you suburbanite)
April 7, 2006 - 11:46 AM on April 7th, 2006
“Recent statistics from the Pew Hispanic Research Center indicate that undocumented immigrants account for about 4.9% of the civilian labor force, or 7.2 million workers out of a total U.S. labor force of 148 million.”
Peejz, not ALL of them are working at below average wages – “slave labor” as you call it.
And it’s just another UNrealistic thing to say we can replace those 7 million workers with “welfare slobs”. It’s just not an option.
These people are here, they are skilled at what they do, and they do it a cheaper wage so we can buy those goods at a cheaper price. It’s not slave labor when they are RUNNING TO these jobs. They sure aren’t running AWAY from them…
April 7, 2006 - 11:49 AM on April 7th, 2006
“we can all sit around and bang on bongos like the homeless do in golden gate park (if you’ve actually been there, you suburbanite)”
Mike, I live on California Street between Divsadero and Broderick St. here in SF. That’s like, what, a mile and a half from GG Park? Certainly not the suburbs…
April 7, 2006 - 11:56 AM on April 7th, 2006
Mike #18: I didn’t see that, but I was just wondering why we have heard nothing at all about military recruitment goals. I can recall very clearly how just last year the MSM was glibly reporting about how the Army was having trouble recuiting.
Gosh, you’d think recruitment being up would be good news!
Silence speaks volumes. It means that they don’t have anything with this issue to use to undermine the Bush Admin so they just drop the topic.
By the way, the #s are 89% of MSM = Democrites, 11% are others (including Repubs). Anyone who says the MSM is not Left-biased is attempting to make an unsupportable argument.
*********************************************************
The fact that the Social Security Administration has surplus money paid in by illegals using fake SS #s is nothing new, it is well known. What is important to remember is the net cost of illegals to the Federal Gov’t and the States, and those numbers are HUGE.
**********************************************************
There is not one good, valid, reasonable argument to support illegal immigration. It simply cannot be done; it is useless to try.
So what do we do now? I remember Simpson-Mazzoli, which passed in 1986. It granted amnesty to existing illegals, and access to the bennies and freebies and citizenship. Many of us didn’t like that part, but the whole thing, the compromise, was that in exchange, boy this was it! NO MORE illegals! We’re going to close the door, and no mas!
Well, they did the anmnesty, the freebies, the citizenship. But they didn’t do the rest. The result? ~12 million more illegals, which was entirely predictable and was predicted! So Sorry, but the ONLY thing to do now is complete the job that Simpson-Mazzoli was supposed to do:
1. Seal the border.
2. Turn off the magnet.
3. Deport the illegals. (that includes emptying the prisons and jails and deporting the criminals. With a tight border, they can’t come back, which is what they would do if we deported them now).
Then, and only then when all of that is complete, is it justice to start talking about a guest worker program.
ANYTHING else is wrong.
April 7, 2006 - 11:56 AM on April 7th, 2006
Ah, I know where you are.. I stayed on Sutter, near Kearny… across from the Hallidie bldg.
April 7, 2006 - 12:08 PM on April 7th, 2006
Ah, I know where you are.. I stayed on Sutter, near Kearny: across from the Hallidie bldg.
OK, Cool! I work downtown on Montgomery St. and Sutter.
Small world! Where are you now? Philly?
April 7, 2006 - 12:09 PM on April 7th, 2006
Actually, we do not need to import unskilled, uneducated, illiterate people; the public school system is producing them here by the thousands!
April 7, 2006 - 12:13 PM on April 7th, 2006
Yes, I live on S. Broad Street in Center City, Philly.
I’ve been to San Fran a few times… I was telling you about the good food and sangrias on Haight right before the park..cha cha cha
also Tommy’s joint is cool…
April 7, 2006 - 12:15 PM on April 7th, 2006
“Silence speaks volumes. It means that they don’t have anything with this issue to use to undermine the Bush Admin so they just drop the topic.”
RE-enlistment is up…actual first time recruitment is DOWN.
here is an articel from May of last year…
(did I do the link thing right?)
April 7, 2006 - 12:16 PM on April 7th, 2006
oops…article
April 7, 2006 - 12:25 PM on April 7th, 2006
54.. well that makes sense, given the liberal media’s constant anti-war, anti-military drumbeat, scaring recruits away.
however, those who actually serve are….gasp..RE-ENLISTING!!!!!
April 7, 2006 - 12:28 PM on April 7th, 2006
Ok…but it is still the same issue: they won’t put out good news.
April 7, 2006 - 12:33 PM on April 7th, 2006
why would they? Like I said, instead of talking about a new school or hospital going up in Iraq or Afghanistan, NBC news did 3 minutes on Katie fucking Couric last night.
I shit you not.
April 7, 2006 - 12:34 PM on April 7th, 2006
“good food and sangrias on Haight right before the park..cha cha cha”
I walked by it the other day and thought of you. I remember you had mentioned it. I’ll have to check it out sometime soon…
also Tommy’s joint is cool:
I’ve been in SF nearly three years now, my bus goes by that place everyday, and I’ve never stopped. I also gotta check it out…but there’s something about Tommys “Famous Buffalo Stew” that makes me a little leery…
April 7, 2006 - 12:40 PM on April 7th, 2006
I always remember Tommy’s Joint cuz that’s where James and Lars told Jason Newsted that he had the job in Metallica….
I rode that bus that goes down Divsadero too!!!! haha.. also the one that goes on Geary all the way from the Park back to Union Square…
Great City views from Beuna Vista park…lots o dog walkers.
April 7, 2006 - 12:51 PM on April 7th, 2006
SF Liberal LOVES Metallica.
I sold my car when I came here, have to take the bus EVERYWHERE. The 24 Divisadero line is my jam!
Am going to Union Square in five minutes to rent a car for this weekend!
That’s so cool you’ve been out here! I love the architecture, all the Queen Anne bay windows, etc…
April 7, 2006 - 01:03 PM on April 7th, 2006
I love metallica up to And Justice for All..everything after that is crap.
I don’t drive either..making me a TRUE environmentalist.
April 7, 2006 - 01:09 PM on April 7th, 2006
You see, San Fran Sam…we have more in common than you think
you don’t play guitar by any chance, do you?
have a crazy japanese girlfriend?
April 7, 2006 - 01:29 PM on April 7th, 2006
Mike, all you have to do is turn Liberal, and you’ll be pals for life!
April 7, 2006 - 01:41 PM on April 7th, 2006
uh…..nope. I’ll keep my brain, thank you.
April 7, 2006 - 01:49 PM on April 7th, 2006
San Francisco used to be a great city. I grew up in the South Bay, and loved to go visit the City as a kid in the 60’s. I would marvel at the architecture, the history, the famous landmarks.
Then came the hippies, the Liberals, the homos, the grifters, the bums, and the carpetbag politicians (like Barbara Boxer).
Now, except for the elite neighborhoods, the Presidio, and a few oases, the city is largely a cesspool.
I used to have to go into the Mission District for work occasionally. The vaunted Mish, celebrated for its “diversity”. Its diverse all right, a diversity of illegals, drug addicts, thieves, prostitutes, and zombies wandering around aimlessly on the street displaying the thousand-yard stare.
Now we stay as far away as we can; except that last week my wife had to go there for some trainibng and decided to stay overnight rather than drive back late at night in bad weather. She left her vehicle parked in a city-owned parking garage, withe security, and came back in the morning to find her car window smashed so the thief could grab a suitcase and run. A $600 window smashed to nget a suitcase full of clothing. Maybe the thief’ll get $10 for the works?
Anyway, a stinking, rotting, corrupted human cesspool. That is what it has become. All of these wide-eyed tourists come from all over the world thinking they’re in for huge treat. If they don’t get robbed or mugged, they risk taking some disease home with them.
April 7, 2006 - 02:27 PM on April 7th, 2006
hahaha…wow! Not a ringing endorsement of the city by the bay!!!
Come to Philly Robert! YOU CAN STILL SMOKE…..EVERYWHERE!
April 7, 2006 - 02:57 PM on April 7th, 2006
46- Nice way to justify the slave trade. History has shown us that once the African slaves were freed, they were not all running from the plantations, but that doesn’t justify the actions of the slave owners. Just as you trying to justify the fact that you are condoning a race of people being used as slave labor under the pretense that our economy depends on them.
Yes we can survive without the illegal work force. You force the employers to hire legals and pay all the proper taxes on them. You force them, by following the laws, to pay them a minimum wage. This will weed out those that are here for the long haul from those that just want the social benefits. This will force Mexico to develop their country and utilize their people. How exactly is our economy going to go down the tubes by forcing those in Beverly Hills, Manhattan, South Hampton, and Palm Beach etc, to hire legal employees to clean their homes and raise their kids? How is it going to kill our economy to force people to utilize pool cleaning services that are licensed?
We are at 4.5% unemployment as it is…As long as we have legal citizens looking for work, there is no reason to keep illegals here.
April 7, 2006 - 03:06 PM on April 7th, 2006
I love metallica up to And Justice for All…everything after that is crap.
I agree 1000%…and “crap” is putting it lightly.
I don’t drive either..making me a TRUE environmentalist.
Sweet dude! Screw the hassle of owning/paying for a car! I’m not sure if there’s such a thing as a “true” enviromentlaist, but there are certainly varying degrees of effort. And not playing the “car game” is high up on the list!
You see, San Fran Sam:we have more in common than you think.
you don’t play guitar by any chance, do you?
have a crazy japanese girlfriend?
Oh, I know man. I try not to be one of those on the Right OR Left who always sterotypes the political opposition or isolates himself around only like-minded individuals. Diversity IS good…plus, I grew up in entirely Republican household.(!) I’m used to it.
I do play guitar! Electric and a crappy old accoustic.
Robert: “Mike, all you have to do is turn Liberal, and you’ll be pals for life!”
Robert, nobody has to “turn liberal” to be my pal. A bit of knowledge in Metallica and/or old Black Sabbath can’t hurt, either…
April 7, 2006 - 03:14 PM on April 7th, 2006
Peejz, I understand what you are saying, but it’s just not practical.
Maybe it sounds good on paper or to say it out loud, but it’s just not feasible to remove a workforce of 7 million people and replace it with another one. Who may or may not be willing to work.
Have you thought about the 4.5% unemployed? Do they even WANT to work? CAN many of them work? In that 4.5% number you have people on disability, etc…
It sounds “good”, but it just won’t work.
April 7, 2006 - 03:29 PM on April 7th, 2006
Robert & San Francisco.
Wow man, I’m sorry your wifes car got busted into.:sad: It seems almost a right-of-passage when living in a big city, but for a visitor that’s hard.
I also marvel at the architecture, the history, the famous landmarks.
But I think your version of history is a bit skewed…it happens a lot with this City.
San Francisco has ALWAYS been different from other American cities. Starting in its days as a frontier Gold Rush town the city was known worldwide as a rough place with it’s “Barbary Coast” attitudes. “Homos”, prostitutes, crime, corrupt politicians, “weirdos” like the hippies…they’ve ALWAYS been here.
In fact, that’s part of the whole appeal to some folks who come here. You don’t like it, fine. Don’t move here.
But, don’t you forget for one minute that it’s San Francisco who is still one of the top tourist destinations of the world, and the United States.
Not San Jose. (!)
April 7, 2006 - 03:36 PM on April 7th, 2006
68- The figure of 4.5% unemployment is the number of people that are collecting unemployment benefits due to job loss…this is not a welfare group or a group of disabled people..this is the unemployed but able to work force in this county.
Tell me exactly why is is not practical to
a. Deport the illegals
b. utilize the legal workforce in this county.
We don’t even know that that 7 million is a good figure. If I am to believe the figure, that means we have 3-4 million illegals that are not contributing to anything..
Of those 7 million people doing the jobs:
what is the breakdown that work in the AG business, vs the fields of domestic help, pool cleaning, yard work, truck driving, construction
April 7, 2006 - 05:11 PM on April 7th, 2006
Holy shit! Did you say Black Sabbath?????
Only my favorite band, the greatest band EVER!!!!!!!!!
April 7, 2006 - 05:16 PM on April 7th, 2006
San Fran Liberal is now OK in my book.
You said the magic words.
April 7, 2006 - 05:55 PM on April 7th, 2006
Peejz is great, “he said it right on the money”, it’s all comes down to dollars and who will have a home at the end of day!..what is needed is the idea of a rights of citizenship, over the people of the world
ops:
bush i don’t see anyone real saying that in our government.
April 7, 2006 - 05:57 PM on April 7th, 2006
However, San Fran….here is the test
Name your favorite Metallica album and the 2 best Black Sabbath albums.
April 8, 2006 - 09:02 AM on April 8th, 2006
Re #69: Yes, they have always been there, and things can happen in any city.
But what my point was is that the concentration is so much higher in SF.
Still a popular tourist destination because Conde Nast and the other promoters still paint this false picture to tourists everywhere. They don’t get hit with the reality until they get there.
I feel safer in New York City than in SF. Whenever I do have to go to SF, I always go armed.
April 8, 2006 - 09:14 PM on April 8th, 2006
Hey Robert if you go armed to SF it had better be a knife or club. They’ve banned firearms in the city. The NRA is suing and the city attorney admits that the ordinance is absolutely unconstitutional but that they were going to try and get it approved anyway. Of course this is the same city where the city council has voted to ignore any US immigration law that they don’t like and one councilman has called for the disbanding of 90% of the US military in favor of allowing the UN to defend our borders.
San Fran, I have noticed that you absolutely refuse to use the one phrase that accurately describes these “Migrant workers” That phrase is “ILLEGAL ALIEN”. A person who is not a citizen of a country is by definition an ALIEN. Any act that is in violation of a law is by definition ILLEGAL. To be in this country in violation of the applicable immigration law therefore makes them by definition ILLEGAL ALIENS. While they may be migrant workers as well, they are first and foremost ILLEGAL ALIENS.
I would hazard a guess that you don’t routinely have shootings within 3 – 4 blocks of your house. I do. I would hazard a guess that you haven’t had your buildings broken into and your property stolen. I have. I would also guess that you haven’t had running gun battles on your freeways between gangs of human smugglers. One of the illegals recently arrested in Phoenix was earning $19 an hour as a heavy equipment operator. Hardly minimum wage. He had already been been arrested, convicted of a felony, served time in prison and been deported once. While attending a hearing for a home invasion, 3 armed car jackings (obtained the handgun illegally, under federal law, felons aren’t allowed to own firearms.) shooting a police officer and being under the influence of illegal drugs, he attacked a sheriff’s deputy with a shank stabbing him 10 times in the face and neck. Maybe you need to move to a lower cost of living area where 10 – 15 illegals can pool their money and move into a 2 bedroom apartment down the hall. I doubt you’d be so damn fond of them if it were your neighborhood that was going to crap because of the violence and crime.
On the crystal meth topic, yes a lot of it is made here. However they are catching illegals coming across the border with backpacks full of the stuff. Mexico isn’t as stringent in controlling the supply of Pseudoephedrine as the US. I actually have to produce ID and sign for allergy meds.
April 9, 2006 - 06:06 AM on April 9th, 2006
FAO-When I made the comment to you, I hadn’t thought of the fact that we are eliminating needed ingredients here. That can be a big problem to come…MI seems to be the meth lab cess pool of the country. My husband and I were speaking to the pharmasist and he said that much of the otc drugs needed for the production of the meth will be changing in composition…ie gel tabs to pill form among other things. Pharmacies were forced to pull the products and have us start going to the counter to get what we need…Now the corn farmers are on alert for the following reasons
Now our state not only has the paranoid addict to worry about but also the state picks up the tab for the clean up of the lab sites, which are toxic.
April 9, 2006 - 09:58 AM on April 9th, 2006
FAO: I think San Francisco residents, who are proud of their leader’s decision to criminalize citizens exercising of their 2nd Amendment rights, should proudly place yard signs in front of their homes (or more likely, place signs in the windows of their apts) proclaiming that they support the handgun ban, and that “this residence is a gun-free zone”.
Surely any criminals that are passing through, on their way to commit crimes in a place where guns are allowed, will respect this ordinance and local philosophy! That includes imported criminals, since SF is a sanctuary for illegal aliens and has already said it will not enforce the laws.
I stay away from SF as much as possible. I don’t like getting panhandled every 20 feet as I walk along the sidewalk, and I don’t like the smell of stale urine wafting from the doorways of businesses. I don’t like having to watch where I walk to avoid stepping on human feces left on the sidewalk by bums. But if I absolutely have to go there, I carry. I refuse to be a helpless victim.