The Senate reached a compromise on the illegal immigration issue. Basically they gave away the farm!
The compromise creates a tiered system that gives preference to illegals who have been in the United States longer and have established roots in their communities:
” Illegals in the United States less than two years would be required to leave immediately. If caught once, they would be subject to a misdemeanor, and if caught twice they would be charged with a felony. About 2 million to 3 million people fall into this category.
” Illegals in the United States between two and five years would have go to one of 16 ports of entry in the United States, determined by the U.S. Visit program, and declare themselves. They would be given a temporary visa and allowed back to their U.S. residences immediately. Once in the United States, they could apply for the citizenship path spelled out in the McCain-Kennedy bill. About 3 million to 4 million people fall into this category.
” Illegals who could prove they have been in the United States for more than five years would immediately be given guest worker status and would get on the 11-year path to citizenship. They would not have to declare themselves as guest workers. This path would be open to about 5 million illegals living in the United States.
“While it admittedly is not perfect, the choice we have to make is whether the bill is better than no bill. And I think that is decisive,” said Specter, who supported the Democrat-favored bill.
Actually Senator Specter, it would have been better to have waited and done the right thing for the citizens of the country..
As was pointed out at NewsBusters,
I’ve suggested that deporting illegals seems at least as practicable as administering the amnesty program. In the same piece in which Pinkerton’s quote appears, I put it this way:
“[D]eporting illegal immigrants is much more feasible than the elaborate process the amnesty crowd proposes. Under the amnesty plan, the same 11-12 million illegals would have to be identified and located. They would have to be tested to determine if they had attained English proficiency, monitored for over a decade to see that they sought and maintained jobs, paid their fines, etc. If we can do all that, why couldn’t we put the same people on buses to the border or planes to overseas locations?”
This is a very good point…who is going track these people down? Who is going to verify the information?
This is nothing more than the Senate ignoring the wishes of the voters. This is amnesty.
Where’s the fence all you RightVoicers were dying to see built?
Flush this bill down the toilet ’cause that is where it belongs.
The House bill was not 100% but it is good. Too many of these Senators are elitists who want the cheap labor (which is actually not cheap, but subsidized by the taxpayers). They are not representing the majority of their constituents. They are not acting in the best interests of the U.S.
EVERY Senator who voted for this bill should immediately resign and go home.
Skummm…
That’s strange, I feel kind of good about the bill.
God Bless America, and the moderates in power who still retain the ability to compromise to reach a consensus!!
the fact is soon we the people will be the illegals inside aztlan that is why we see the great compromise it will help with the real aims of our non government to dismantle our rights. the fact is preference is just a word that means racists for Mexico. and who will enforce the removal of Mexican and other from this country? “no one”, the fact is our non government is being controlled by others who are not part of our political and culture ways of life, if you can’t see that you are a fool.
but this is what happens when you hand your farm over to the guy who wants you dead.
moderates help Hitler and the REDS Come to power.
Robert watch the back door its come.
San Fran, I will give you a 5 word argument that will fully justify the fence and will not even touch the topic of illegal aliens. Those words? Crystal Meth, Cocaine, Heroin, and Marijuana. The largest source for all of these ILLEGAL DRUGS is MEXICO. Smugglers are smugglers and they aren’t finicky about what they smuggle. Perhaps you live so high in your ivory tower that you don’t see what’s going on down here in the real world.
If the Illegal Aliens are so anxious to work in low paying jobs here, why do they make up over 20% of our prison population versus approx. 4% of the general population?
In the past week, there have been 2 drop houses in Phoenix busted with over 150 illegals living in them waiting to be transported across the country. There are constantly murders occurring throughout the Phoenix area of illegals by other illegals. They become involved in illegal activities that they think of as business as usual from their native countries. Examples include Cock and dog fighting, and running unlicensed slaughter houses. These things are all considered normal in third world countries and they see no reason to follow our laws about them. We also have one of the highest auto theft rates in the country. As well as the highest identity theft rate in the US.
Maybe the fence won’t stop every illegal or smuggler trying to enter the US, but it sure might discourage a few of them. Even if all it does is channel them all into one area, it will make enforcement of our borders easier. BTW they have found a number of illegals of arabic descent sneaking into this country. 9-11 only took 19, we have an average of 10,000 illegals sneak into this country every 24 hours. Does it take another 3,000 killed in another terrorist attack to remind you why we need to know and control who is in this country?
“That’s strange, I feel kind of good about the bill.”
Me too. This bill won’t change anything it is a total joke.
FrmrArtyOffcr;
“I will give you a 5 word argument that will fully justify the fence and will not even touch the topic of illegal aliens. Those words? Crystal Meth, Cocaine, Heroin, and Marijuana. The largest source for all of these ILLEGAL DRUGS is MEXICO.â€
As long as there is demand for these drugs, no fence or “war on drugs”is going to stop them from coming into our country. No fence on the Mexican border is going to stop my supply of crack.
Zelda- I find it sad that you rejoice in the fact that it is failing. When do you think we should get serious? At what point do you think we should say enough and take care of the problem?
BTW FAO- Chrystal meth is being manufactured right in our own country. There is no need to go outside our borders for it…Hence…take a look at the OTC sections of pharmacy’s across the country.
I could see some law being passed that causes more harm than good. So a new law that does nothing is better than some of the alternatives.
I guess our big difference is that I’m not worried or concerned about illegal immigration. It could be where I live versus where other people live. The immigrants I see are only doing 1 of three things. Working, cashing checks, or buying beer. Thus, from my point of view they are good for the economy. Besides, my produce at the supermarket would be more expensive without the cheap labor to harvest it.
Zelda,
I have no idea where you live, but many of the illegals where I live are often doing one of 3 things 1. selling drugs (not that bad for the economy or me) 2. killing each other (not really that bad either, if you think about it or 3. killing / robbing / raping innocent people…very bad.
I live in Center City Philadelphia, you probably live in podunkville alabama……..big difference.
We have Mexican, colombian, El Salvadoran, Vietnamese and Chinese GANGS and the associated violence.
So as long as we no longer have black slaves, it’s all good.:roll:
No, our produce would not be more expensive to harvest..We offer these farmers legal migrants to work their fields..those legal migrants are saying up front that we want to work here but retain our citizenship in our motherland…Honest and legal. But the farmers found a way to utilize slave labor…If you go after the employer and force them to abide by the law, it will weed out those that are here for the long haul vs those that are here to live off the system..
Mike, the stat given is correct by the way..20% of the prison population is made up of illegals!
Just how many AL QUEDA terrorists are slipping accross the border while those braindead youths are doing all those stupid protesting?:roll:
Zelda- I would rather see them pass the right bill rather than pass bs off as a great piece of work!
Okay, you guys seem to have some legitimate problems with illegal immigrants. I would love to see some unbiased data on what the illegals in America are actually doing. How much violent crime are they really responsible for.
Also, what are they in jail for? My guess would be that most of that 20% is locked up just for being here illegally, not for committing a violent crime.
15- Zelda you can do research on it..but I do want to say that we do not put someone in our prison system for being here illegally..we a. let the go with a summons for which they don’t show up or b. deport them..hahahah which we just don’t do.
Look up MS-13
also drugs, gangs theft, rape
They are in prison for a number of offences, but violent crime is at the top of the list.
“Also, what are they in jail for? My guess would be that most of that 20% is locked up just for being here illegally, not for committing a violent crime.”
Please put the crack pipe down!
This has been discussed already. Peejz is correct: 0% are in jail for being illegal. The laws are simply not being enforced.
Hey robert..did you see that report on the NBC nightly news last night about the ballooning re-enlisment numbers in the army right now? You didn’t?
OH, that’s right!!! They did 2 minutes on Katie Couric and the Today show instead.
what libeal media?
Found this little tid-bit on BusinessWeek.com…kind of interesting about the Social Security earnings suspense file…might be something to look at to help off set some of the costs these migrants are causing on our strained system…
What are the costs of undocumented immigration in the U.S.?
There are real costs for some states and municipalities, especially for health care and education. But Standard & Poor’s believes that a serious misallocation of these costs among various levels of government is at least as much of a problem as their overall magnitude.
Each year, for example, the U.S. Social Security Administration maintains roughly $6 billion to $7 billion of Social Security contributions in an “earnings suspense file” — an account for W-2 tax forms that cannot be matched to the correct Social Security number. The vast majority of these numbers are attributable to undocumented workers who will never claim their benefits.
If those funds could be earmarked for local support, they would make a sizable dent in education costs. Local school districts are estimated to educate 1.8 million undocumented children. At an average annual cost of $7,500 (averages vary by jurisdiction) per student, the cost of providing education to these children is about $11.2 billion. That means roughly half of the education costs for undocumented immigrant children could be met if these Social Security funds could be redirected.
While this specific reallocation of funds may never occur, the principle, in our opinion, remains valid: Taxes from the spending of undocumented workers can help offset the costs those workers generate. Past studies have shown that even in a state like California, which has the highest number of undocumented immigrants, those immigrants generate approximately one-third to one-half of their estimated costs to the state through sales taxes and other assorted fees. In short, these costs are real, but they could also be more manageable.
That’s all well and good, SF, but the point is……why spend anything on them when there are LEGAL US citizens in need of services?
Dosen’t following the law count for anything these days?
Why would we redirect Social Security to education? How about we educate the citizens and the legal aliens of this country and let the country of origin for the illegal educate them?
…let the country of origin for the illegal educate them?
Peejz, while I’m sure it feels good to say something like that and at first glance “makes sense”….it’s just not an option.
These migrant workers will come here for the money and the jobs NO MATTER WHAT. You could build all the fences and electronic frontiers that your heart desires, but they will STILL come here.
We need practical, realistic solutions for this issue.
Practical solutions.
Crushing fines for the hiring of illegals.
Roving patrols at the border with shoot on sight orders
Denial of any benefits without documentation of legal status
are we through yet?
..and by the way, San Fran Sam, yes, it’s sad to say…I am french.
Crushing fines for the hiring of illegals.
Possible.
Roving patrols at the border with shoot on sight orders
HIGHLY impossible and immoral
Denial of any benefits without documentation of legal status
This already happens, no? Unless the benefit is specifically for migrants.
Why is it immoral to shoot to kill invaders?
If someone is breaking into your home with intend to rob you, do harm to you, etc.. aren’t you justified in shooting them?
yes, you are.
27–Although many illegal immigrants participate in crime, many also do not. You cannot prove just by looking at them that someone by the border is intending to cross and do harm to someone. I gotta side with San Fran here, I think that would be immoral. I understand what you are trying to say with your analogy, but I don’t think it is the proper analogy to make your point.
28.
That’s ridiculous. When someone is RUNNING across the border, looking over their shoulders, etc..they are KNOWINGLY invading our sovereignty…why can we not shoot them?
if someone is breaking into my home, I’m not waiting to see their “intentions”, I’m puttin’ them down. period.
Of course people will keep coming here. We are not doing anything to stop it. We need to allow the INS and border patrols to do their job.
29–can you prove they intend to cause harm? We cannot shoot someone because they’re doing something illegal that we don’t want them to do. By that reasoning, I can shoot someone speeding down the road. It’s illegal, they might hurt someone, and I don’t want them to do it. Right?
I’m not saying illegal immigrants are not an issue, I’m saying we can’t just shoot them.
32. no, but you can shoot someone breaking into your home..and that’s what they are doing.
I love how it would be “immoral” to shoot them but somehow there is nothing immoral about using these illegals as slave trade in the country!
Like I said, as long as they are not those black slaves, it’s all good!
Why is it immoral to shoot to kill invaders?
Shooting someone breaking into your home, and shooting a migrant crossing the border looking for work are two totally different situations.
Uh, not technically. You can shoot someone breaking into your home because it’s property that you own. Like I said, I know where you’re trying to go, but I don’t think your examples support it strongly.
Peejz–I hope you are not implying I support slave trade or use as illegal immigrants solely for cheap labor.
One can think it immoral to shoot without making the jump to them supporting slave labor.
Well let me ask you this Alyssa, other than cheap labor, what is the arguement for allowing them to stay? Do you really think they would be here if not for the wages?
We cannot shoot someone because they’re doing something illegal that we don’t want them to do. By that reasoning, I can shoot someone speeding down the road. It’s illegal, they might hurt someone, and I don’t want them to do it. Right?
EXACTLY. Where does it stop??
“other than cheap labor, what is the argument for allowing them to stay?”
Uhhh…the arguments for allowing them to stay are legion. For starters, it’s physically impossible to remove 9 million people from within our borders. Second, it would be an economic disaster if you suddenly removed 4% of the nations workforce.
“Do you really think they would be here if not for the wages”?
Probably not nearly in such large numbers. But I reckon there would always be those who would come here for better social advancements like better education and health care for their kids, etc.
These invaders represent a danger to every man, woman and child in america…not to mention the potential for al qaeda to be among them…..
San Fran Sam.. I can replace that 4% REALLY QUICKLY with the lazy fuckhead at the save-a-lot buying up ho-hos, ring dings and strawberry soda with their welfare money.
problem solved.
“These invaders represent a danger to every man, woman and child in America:not to mention the potential for al Qaeda to be among them:”
Oh, please – no they do not. Calm down.
Scapegoating mass groups of your fellow human beings is the first mis-step onto a very slippery slope. You would be wise to avoid that kind of over emotional thinking…
It would be an economic disaster to remove them/ 4% of our workforce? How can that be when unemployment is at 4.5%? No, it would not hurt the economy…but it speaks volumes that you support slavery!
how would it remove 4% of our workforce when I would replace them immediately with the lazy slobs collecting welfare?
San Fran..if that’s the case, then why have borders at all?
after all, they are our “fellow human beings”?
we can all sit around and bang on bongos like the homeless do in golden gate park (if you’ve actually been there, you suburbanite)
“Recent statistics from the Pew Hispanic Research Center indicate that undocumented immigrants account for about 4.9% of the civilian labor force, or 7.2 million workers out of a total U.S. labor force of 148 million.”
Peejz, not ALL of them are working at below average wages – “slave labor” as you call it.
And it’s just another UNrealistic thing to say we can replace those 7 million workers with “welfare slobs”. It’s just not an option.
These people are here, they are skilled at what they do, and they do it a cheaper wage so we can buy those goods at a cheaper price. It’s not slave labor when they are RUNNING TO these jobs. They sure aren’t running AWAY from them…
“we can all sit around and bang on bongos like the homeless do in golden gate park (if you’ve actually been there, you suburbanite)”
Mike, I live on California Street between Divsadero and Broderick St. here in SF. That’s like, what, a mile and a half from GG Park? Certainly not the suburbs…
Mike #18: I didn’t see that, but I was just wondering why we have heard nothing at all about military recruitment goals. I can recall very clearly how just last year the MSM was glibly reporting about how the Army was having trouble recuiting.
Gosh, you’d think recruitment being up would be good news!
Silence speaks volumes. It means that they don’t have anything with this issue to use to undermine the Bush Admin so they just drop the topic.
By the way, the #s are 89% of MSM = Democrites, 11% are others (including Repubs). Anyone who says the MSM is not Left-biased is attempting to make an unsupportable argument.
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The fact that the Social Security Administration has surplus money paid in by illegals using fake SS #s is nothing new, it is well known. What is important to remember is the net cost of illegals to the Federal Gov’t and the States, and those numbers are HUGE.
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There is not one good, valid, reasonable argument to support illegal immigration. It simply cannot be done; it is useless to try.
So what do we do now? I remember Simpson-Mazzoli, which passed in 1986. It granted amnesty to existing illegals, and access to the bennies and freebies and citizenship. Many of us didn’t like that part, but the whole thing, the compromise, was that in exchange, boy this was it! NO MORE illegals! We’re going to close the door, and no mas!
Well, they did the anmnesty, the freebies, the citizenship. But they didn’t do the rest. The result? ~12 million more illegals, which was entirely predictable and was predicted! So Sorry, but the ONLY thing to do now is complete the job that Simpson-Mazzoli was supposed to do:
1. Seal the border.
2. Turn off the magnet.
3. Deport the illegals. (that includes emptying the prisons and jails and deporting the criminals. With a tight border, they can’t come back, which is what they would do if we deported them now).
Then, and only then when all of that is complete, is it justice to start talking about a guest worker program.
ANYTHING else is wrong.
Ah, I know where you are.. I stayed on Sutter, near Kearny… across from the Hallidie bldg.