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	<title>Comments on: Osama&#8217;s Congressman: John Murtha</title>
	<atom:link href="http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/</link>
	<description>in all matter of opinion, our adversaries are insane.</description>
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		<title>By: Big Dogs Weblog</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/comment-page-1/#comment-299800</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Dogs Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 01:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/#comment-299800</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Osama&#039;s Congressman: John Murtha&lt;/strong&gt;

Hillary Clinton is running for the presidency and she is out playing the field and trying to appear like everything to everybody.  She has tried to appear moderate, and at times she has swung back to the left in order to placate her base.  She is a mas...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Osama&#8217;s Congressman: John Murtha</strong></p>
<p>Hillary Clinton is running for the presidency and she is out playing the field and trying to appear like everything to everybody.  She has tried to appear moderate, and at times she has swung back to the left in order to placate her base.  She is a mas&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: FrmrArtyOffcr</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/comment-page-1/#comment-234375</link>
		<dc:creator>FrmrArtyOffcr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/#comment-234375</guid>
		<description>Travis, you really should look at sites unrelated to the liberal left. You could also stand to take a few history classes. There is plenty of evidence that &quot;redeploying outside of Iraq&quot; will not stabilize it. We have the best VOLUNTEER Army on the planet. No soldier, sailor, airman or Marine is in the theater unless they VOLUNTEERED to join. They absolutely aren&#039;t there for a third or fourth tour without volunteering to do it AGAIN. With the average enlistment being for 3 to 4 years, and each combat tour being for approximately 12 to 18 months, it simply isn&#039;t possible for them to be there more than twice without reenlisting for another tour. Who do you think knows more about what&#039;s going on there? YOU or the soldiers who have actually been there? John Murtha or Joe Lieberman who has actually been there multiple times? If it&#039;s so damn bad there, why are the number of attacks less than 1/3 of what they were 2 years ago? If the Iraqi people don&#039;t want us there, why are they calling in to the tip line thousands of times a month? 

Murtha simply is trying to make political hay by running his mouth. The Democrats are trying to use his history as a Marine officer to claim his position is unassailable. His position is wrong, and to follow it would be disastrous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Travis, you really should look at sites unrelated to the liberal left. You could also stand to take a few history classes. There is plenty of evidence that &#8220;redeploying outside of Iraq&#8221; will not stabilize it. We have the best VOLUNTEER Army on the planet. No soldier, sailor, airman or Marine is in the theater unless they VOLUNTEERED to join. They absolutely aren&#8217;t there for a third or fourth tour without volunteering to do it AGAIN. With the average enlistment being for 3 to 4 years, and each combat tour being for approximately 12 to 18 months, it simply isn&#8217;t possible for them to be there more than twice without reenlisting for another tour. Who do you think knows more about what&#8217;s going on there? YOU or the soldiers who have actually been there? John Murtha or Joe Lieberman who has actually been there multiple times? If it&#8217;s so damn bad there, why are the number of attacks less than 1/3 of what they were 2 years ago? If the Iraqi people don&#8217;t want us there, why are they calling in to the tip line thousands of times a month? </p>
<p>Murtha simply is trying to make political hay by running his mouth. The Democrats are trying to use his history as a Marine officer to claim his position is unassailable. His position is wrong, and to follow it would be disastrous.</p>
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		<title>By: travis</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/comment-page-1/#comment-233544</link>
		<dc:creator>travis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/#comment-233544</guid>
		<description>Peejz - primarily because the Taliban provided al-Qaeda a safe base of operations from which to attack.  It was essential for the safety to the U.S. to completely smash any form of state-sponsored support for al-Qaeda.  Also, as a distant second reason, Afghanistan had been a failed state since the Russians withdrew, and so it would be good to have a democracy there, instead of multiple warlords with fiefdoms.  That second reason is insufficient to start a war, but it&#039;s a damned good reason to stay and do the best job possible.  It&#039;s too bad that that didn&#039;t happen.

Iraq had no important connections with al-Qaeda, even including the now-dead Zarqawi.  I&#039;m sorry we disagree about our losing in Iraq.  I wish you were right.

John Galt - Insults are&#039;t arguments.  Wouldn&#039;t it be better if you could persuade people to believe what you believe, rather than demonize them?  Spoonful of sugar, and all that.  

As far as the WMDs, I don&#039;t understand your point.  I always thought Hussein had WMDs before the war, and I still didn&#039;t favor America starting a war with Iraq.  North Korea has nuclear weapons &lt;em&gt;now&lt;/em&gt; -- do we invade them next?  North Korea&#039;s leader is actually bug-nutty insane, unlike the canny Hussein. Pakistan was &lt;em&gt;selling&lt;/em&gt; plans for their nuclear weapons, &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; shielding Osama bin Ladin -- do we invade them next?  Iran has nuclear power now &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; they&#039;re helping the Shia insurgency in Iraq -- do we invade Iran next, before they can build a bomb?  Those are real global problems, John, not a few crates of ten-year-old shells with mustard and sarin gas.  Why not invade all these countries right now?

If this story about the WMDs is true, it doesn&#039;t make the problem with the insurgency in Iraq any better.  This news doesn&#039;t protect the soldiers who will be killed by IEDs in the coming week.  It doesn&#039;t heal the minds and bodies of U.S. soldiers on their third and &lt;em&gt;fourth&lt;/em&gt; rotation in Iraq, a brutal, killing schedule that was never imposed on our soldiers before.

You&#039;re responding to a political announcement as if it were a military victory.  That&#039;s naive.  Look at the framing of it.  Santorum, a politician in a tough senatorial race, announced the news.  He&#039;s fighting for his job (latest poll has him nearly 20 points down).  He was allowed to announce the good news with Hoekstra, even though he had nothing whatever to do with it.   

Don&#039;t fall for the dog and pony show.  Bring our boys home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peejz &#8211; primarily because the Taliban provided al-Qaeda a safe base of operations from which to attack.  It was essential for the safety to the U.S. to completely smash any form of state-sponsored support for al-Qaeda.  Also, as a distant second reason, Afghanistan had been a failed state since the Russians withdrew, and so it would be good to have a democracy there, instead of multiple warlords with fiefdoms.  That second reason is insufficient to start a war, but it&#8217;s a damned good reason to stay and do the best job possible.  It&#8217;s too bad that that didn&#8217;t happen.</p>
<p>Iraq had no important connections with al-Qaeda, even including the now-dead Zarqawi.  I&#8217;m sorry we disagree about our losing in Iraq.  I wish you were right.</p>
<p>John Galt &#8211; Insults are&#8217;t arguments.  Wouldn&#8217;t it be better if you could persuade people to believe what you believe, rather than demonize them?  Spoonful of sugar, and all that.  </p>
<p>As far as the WMDs, I don&#8217;t understand your point.  I always thought Hussein had WMDs before the war, and I still didn&#8217;t favor America starting a war with Iraq.  North Korea has nuclear weapons <em>now</em> &#8212; do we invade them next?  North Korea&#8217;s leader is actually bug-nutty insane, unlike the canny Hussein. Pakistan was <em>selling</em> plans for their nuclear weapons, <em>and</em> shielding Osama bin Ladin &#8212; do we invade them next?  Iran has nuclear power now <em>and</em> they&#8217;re helping the Shia insurgency in Iraq &#8212; do we invade Iran next, before they can build a bomb?  Those are real global problems, John, not a few crates of ten-year-old shells with mustard and sarin gas.  Why not invade all these countries right now?</p>
<p>If this story about the WMDs is true, it doesn&#8217;t make the problem with the insurgency in Iraq any better.  This news doesn&#8217;t protect the soldiers who will be killed by IEDs in the coming week.  It doesn&#8217;t heal the minds and bodies of U.S. soldiers on their third and <em>fourth</em> rotation in Iraq, a brutal, killing schedule that was never imposed on our soldiers before.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re responding to a political announcement as if it were a military victory.  That&#8217;s naive.  Look at the framing of it.  Santorum, a politician in a tough senatorial race, announced the news.  He&#8217;s fighting for his job (latest poll has him nearly 20 points down).  He was allowed to announce the good news with Hoekstra, even though he had nothing whatever to do with it.   </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t fall for the dog and pony show.  Bring our boys home.</p>
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		<title>By: John Galt</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/comment-page-1/#comment-233504</link>
		<dc:creator>John Galt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/#comment-233504</guid>
		<description>If only Travis waited about 5 hours to write 16... he could have saved himself looking like a FOOL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If only Travis waited about 5 hours to write 16&#8230; he could have saved himself looking like a FOOL.</p>
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		<title>By: John Galt</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/comment-page-1/#comment-233503</link>
		<dc:creator>John Galt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/#comment-233503</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the smarmey lesson travis... Hatemonger!  BTW, hows 500 WMD&#039;s sound to ya.  Hope you like crow, because it is being served now.  Open up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the smarmey lesson travis&#8230; Hatemonger!  BTW, hows 500 WMD&#8217;s sound to ya.  Hope you like crow, because it is being served now.  Open up.</p>
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		<title>By: Peejz</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/comment-page-1/#comment-233483</link>
		<dc:creator>Peejz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/#comment-233483</guid>
		<description>Travis- I have read your comments,and I have a couple of thoughts. First of all, we aren&#039;t losing in Iraq..I suppose if a blind man went over, they may get that feeling, but the footage and news coming out of the country disprove your thoughts.  There are certain areas that are still danger zones..but not the entire country...And the celebrations in the streets last week show a country wanting the terrorists out....

You say you supported and still do, the Afganistan operations..but you say we are failing there as well..How? And you supported that why? Afganistan didn&#039;t attack us on 9/11 did they?

Murtha is a dick!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Travis- I have read your comments,and I have a couple of thoughts. First of all, we aren&#8217;t losing in Iraq..I suppose if a blind man went over, they may get that feeling, but the footage and news coming out of the country disprove your thoughts.  There are certain areas that are still danger zones..but not the entire country&#8230;And the celebrations in the streets last week show a country wanting the terrorists out&#8230;.</p>
<p>You say you supported and still do, the Afganistan operations..but you say we are failing there as well..How? And you supported that why? Afganistan didn&#8217;t attack us on 9/11 did they?</p>
<p>Murtha is a dick!</p>
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		<title>By: travis</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/comment-page-1/#comment-233477</link>
		<dc:creator>travis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/#comment-233477</guid>
		<description>John Galt - You think that, as a progressive, I sell hats?  Well, that is incorrect, sir, but I take no offense.

If you think we&#039;re winning in Iraq, or that we&#039;re going to win, that&#039;s great.  Muster your facts, and see if they support your argument.  Pick any single fact that Murtha stated, and prove its opposite.

Otherwise, it&#039;s just hope that you&#039;re offering, and as the U.S. Army has long and wisely said, hope is not a plan.  

I was strongly opposed to the war beforehand.  However, once we were in Iraq, I too hoped that we would prevail and leave it a better place than it was under Hussein.  But we haven&#039;t, and our name will be cursed by many Iraqis for the damage we have caused.  This is the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Galt &#8211; You think that, as a progressive, I sell hats?  Well, that is incorrect, sir, but I take no offense.</p>
<p>If you think we&#8217;re winning in Iraq, or that we&#8217;re going to win, that&#8217;s great.  Muster your facts, and see if they support your argument.  Pick any single fact that Murtha stated, and prove its opposite.</p>
<p>Otherwise, it&#8217;s just hope that you&#8217;re offering, and as the U.S. Army has long and wisely said, hope is not a plan.  </p>
<p>I was strongly opposed to the war beforehand.  However, once we were in Iraq, I too hoped that we would prevail and leave it a better place than it was under Hussein.  But we haven&#8217;t, and our name will be cursed by many Iraqis for the damage we have caused.  This is the truth.</p>
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		<title>By: John Galt</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/comment-page-1/#comment-233476</link>
		<dc:creator>John Galt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/#comment-233476</guid>
		<description>Travis, after reading your site, I have come to the conclusion that your opinion means shit,,, at least to me.  Progressives=hatmongers, plain and simple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Travis, after reading your site, I have come to the conclusion that your opinion means shit,,, at least to me.  Progressives=hatmongers, plain and simple.</p>
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		<title>By: travis</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/comment-page-1/#comment-233470</link>
		<dc:creator>travis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/#comment-233470</guid>
		<description>PCD - Vietnam is a distraction. We&#039;re not winning in Iraq &lt;em&gt;now&lt;/em&gt;.  Instead, we&#039;re stuck in an endless war against an insurgency deeply imbedded in a civilian population.  That&#039;s Murtha&#039;s point.  Things aren&#039;t improving in Iraq, not by any measure you can name.  They&#039;re not improving militarily for the US, and civilian life for Iraqis is an utter hell.

However, if you still want to talk about Vietnam, then consider the parallels: that conflict, too, was a war against a highly-motivated guerilla force backed by external forces (China, USSR).  Our allies in that war was the incompetent South Vietnamese army, which was only too happy to let US soldiers fight and die in every battle.  (Many individual SVA soldiers fought bravely and well, but the leadership was a disaster).  The comparison with Vietnam shows how much of a leaderless, misguided disaster Iraq is, and why it should have been avoided.

I have never thought we should leave Afghanistan, and I don&#039;t think that now.  We should have fully committed to making that into a success, instead of the failed nation-state that it is now.  Because of the Iraqi disaster, Afghanistan may well turn out to be lost as well.  So Bush will have lost two wars, one that had to be fought, and another that never should been started.

Sandy - You&#039;re right, it&#039;s very painful to consider that our eventual withdrawal will be hailed by Osama and allies as a victory.   This is one more reason why the war should never have been started.

You want to compare Iraq to WWII.  Well, go ahead and compare it.  Pick any official timeline you like, and compare the two conflicts.  The allies had conquered huge swaths of two continents in three years, and victory was clearly anticipated.  While over the same time, Iraq still stands, ungovernable and deadly to our soldiers and its citizens, and victory is barely imaginable.

We won WWII because we made continuous advances.  We prepared carefully for the war; we made national sacrifices; and when plans didn&#039;t work out, we changed them.  &lt;em&gt;None&lt;/em&gt; of that is true in Iraq.  The only group that stands out in this misbegotten mess are the soldiers actually fighting.  &lt;em&gt;They&lt;/em&gt; are making the sacrifices, and they are trying to get these suicidal plans changed.

As Murtha says, &quot;Stay the course&quot; is a political slogan.  It&#039;s not a plan.  U.S. soldiers should not die for political advantage.

Finally, as far as the &quot;Democrats&quot; cutting and running, that&#039;s nonsense.  You should consider very carefully what Reagan did over his eight years in office.  I won&#039;t pretend that I was a fan of his, but he was capable of admitting error and of changing plans when they weren&#039;t working.  Iraq is not working.  U.S. soldiers should not die so that you can feel superior to Democrats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PCD &#8211; Vietnam is a distraction. We&#8217;re not winning in Iraq <em>now</em>.  Instead, we&#8217;re stuck in an endless war against an insurgency deeply imbedded in a civilian population.  That&#8217;s Murtha&#8217;s point.  Things aren&#8217;t improving in Iraq, not by any measure you can name.  They&#8217;re not improving militarily for the US, and civilian life for Iraqis is an utter hell.</p>
<p>However, if you still want to talk about Vietnam, then consider the parallels: that conflict, too, was a war against a highly-motivated guerilla force backed by external forces (China, USSR).  Our allies in that war was the incompetent South Vietnamese army, which was only too happy to let US soldiers fight and die in every battle.  (Many individual SVA soldiers fought bravely and well, but the leadership was a disaster).  The comparison with Vietnam shows how much of a leaderless, misguided disaster Iraq is, and why it should have been avoided.</p>
<p>I have never thought we should leave Afghanistan, and I don&#8217;t think that now.  We should have fully committed to making that into a success, instead of the failed nation-state that it is now.  Because of the Iraqi disaster, Afghanistan may well turn out to be lost as well.  So Bush will have lost two wars, one that had to be fought, and another that never should been started.</p>
<p>Sandy &#8211; You&#8217;re right, it&#8217;s very painful to consider that our eventual withdrawal will be hailed by Osama and allies as a victory.   This is one more reason why the war should never have been started.</p>
<p>You want to compare Iraq to WWII.  Well, go ahead and compare it.  Pick any official timeline you like, and compare the two conflicts.  The allies had conquered huge swaths of two continents in three years, and victory was clearly anticipated.  While over the same time, Iraq still stands, ungovernable and deadly to our soldiers and its citizens, and victory is barely imaginable.</p>
<p>We won WWII because we made continuous advances.  We prepared carefully for the war; we made national sacrifices; and when plans didn&#8217;t work out, we changed them.  <em>None</em> of that is true in Iraq.  The only group that stands out in this misbegotten mess are the soldiers actually fighting.  <em>They</em> are making the sacrifices, and they are trying to get these suicidal plans changed.</p>
<p>As Murtha says, &#8220;Stay the course&#8221; is a political slogan.  It&#8217;s not a plan.  U.S. soldiers should not die for political advantage.</p>
<p>Finally, as far as the &#8220;Democrats&#8221; cutting and running, that&#8217;s nonsense.  You should consider very carefully what Reagan did over his eight years in office.  I won&#8217;t pretend that I was a fan of his, but he was capable of admitting error and of changing plans when they weren&#8217;t working.  Iraq is not working.  U.S. soldiers should not die so that you can feel superior to Democrats.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/comment-page-1/#comment-233460</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2006/06/20/osamas-congressman-john-murtha/#comment-233460</guid>
		<description>&quot;Robert - no, not when Hussein when was in power. After the United States invaded Iraq, for a period of many months, it was substantially safer for civilians than it is now. U.S. reporters drove around unimpeded, perhaps accompanied only by a translater.&quot;

If this is the case, then what it says is that it took time for the foreign fighters, like Al Qaeda, to infiltrate substantial numbers of their people and eqpt into Iraq. Which then underscores the assertion that Iraq is the main front isn the war against terror, just like the Administration (and we) have been saying all along. It is war. War is war. We need to win. &quot;Just win, baby&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Robert &#8211; no, not when Hussein when was in power. After the United States invaded Iraq, for a period of many months, it was substantially safer for civilians than it is now. U.S. reporters drove around unimpeded, perhaps accompanied only by a translater.&#8221;</p>
<p>If this is the case, then what it says is that it took time for the foreign fighters, like Al Qaeda, to infiltrate substantial numbers of their people and eqpt into Iraq. Which then underscores the assertion that Iraq is the main front isn the war against terror, just like the Administration (and we) have been saying all along. It is war. War is war. We need to win. &#8220;Just win, baby&#8221;.</p>
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