Sam Harris: “liberalism has grown dangerously out of touch with the realities of our world”
This is a quote from Sam Harris in his article; Head-in-the-Sand Liberals Western civilization really is at risk from Muslim extremists. He is the author of “The End of Faith: Religion, Terror and the Future of Reason” and “Letter to a Christian Nation” Why do I cite his article? Well, he is a self-professed liberal and he is seeing some problems:
But my correspondence with liberals has convinced me that liberalism has grown dangerously out of touch with the realities of our world ” specifically with what devout Muslims actually believe about the West, about paradise and about the ultimate ascendance of their faith.
On questions of national security, I am now as wary of my fellow liberals as I am of the religious demagogues on the Christian right.
This may seem like frank acquiescence to the charge that “liberals are soft on terrorism.” It is, and they are.
A cult of death is forming in the Muslim world ” for reasons that are perfectly explicable in terms of the Islamic doctrines of martyrdom and jihad. The truth is that we are not fighting a “war on terror.” We are fighting a pestilential theology and a longing for paradise.
This is not to say that we are at war with all Muslims. But we are absolutely at war with those who believe that death in defense of the faith is the highest possible good, that cartoonists should be killed for caricaturing the prophet and that any Muslim who loses his faith should be butchered for apostasy.
Well, according to this survey cited by Allahpundit, the majority is agreeing with Mr. Harris.
September 19, 2006 - 09:18 PM on September 19th, 2006
I have been saying this for 20 years.
September 20, 2006 - 04:29 AM on September 20th, 2006
…out of touch with the realities of our world
Yeah, Mr.Harris that’s the big problem with the Neocons: You folks only think in patterns of YOUR world but not of THE world. That’s the reason why GW mentions at the UN the 3000 victims of 9/11 but not the four-digit-number of American victims of his Iraq-Adventure or the five-digit number of international victims (civilian and military) of it.
There were no terror assaults in the white suburbs (Thank you, GW, you are our hero!) and who cares about those stupid Iraqi or European idiots who get terrorassaults now and then… they don’t do what America wants anyway!
September 20, 2006 - 05:39 AM on September 20th, 2006
Matthias, what part of Europe are you from? Has it been taken over by Muslims?
September 20, 2006 - 06:22 AM on September 20th, 2006
2- Actually Matthias..Mr. harris is no neocon. It is referring to our world and the fact that this country, the USA, needs to wake up to the emerging threat which is very real. I am quite aware of the fact that your wife is a Muslim. You have shared that. As we have discussed, it will take millions of me=oderate Muslims like your wife to stop this..unfortuately, she isn’t taking to the airwaves or the streets denouncing the actions of her fellow muslims, the radicals, that have created this situation.
As for those stupid Iraqi or European idiots who get terrorassaults now and then: they don’t do what America wants anyway! Where do the repressive, time-warped, Muslims get off killing people and burning down villages in order to get what they want. It is time they came into the 21 century….
September 20, 2006 - 06:53 AM on September 20th, 2006
Folks…
There has been ONE “successful” severe terror incident caused by muslim radicals in the history of your country.
*Each year thousands of people die by traffic accidents- do we bomb General Motors or Volkswagen?
*Each year thousands of people die from the unhealthy food they eat- is there an organisation called Anti-BurgerKing-Security?
*Each year thousands of people die of diseases, starvation and wars- is there a “war against poverty”?
Why do you people see the “War against terror” as the number one threat to the civilized world? Am I missing something?
September 20, 2006 - 07:37 AM on September 20th, 2006
6- your linear reasoning astounds me. we choose to drive, we choose to eat, and america waged the first and greatest war against poverty, its called capitalism, and unfortunately the war is being eroded and defeated from forces of socialism, communism, fascism, laziness, and idiocy. we did not however choose to have our buildings bombed and our country attacked, and as the greatest country in the history of human life, as the most powerful military force seen since the roman empire, (the british had their thing going on too for a bit) as a country that has done more goodwill for their fellow man than any in the history of the world (trillions spent on foriegn aid)as a country and people that love life and freedom and believe in the greatness and sanctity of all life, we have the right and duty to defend ourselves and crush the forces of evil that would see us perish. it is not about negotiating or diplomacy or hand wringing and hugging. it is about protecting our way of life. there are those that think the world would be better if america ceased to exist. they are dead wrong. we are the economic force that keeps hundreds of millions of people employed, and many countries have been able to feed off our wealth and prosper themselves. the war against terror is the war to protect america as the vibrant shining light in this world. it is the war to protect our economy. it is the war to protect our freedom. it is the war to protect our heritage. it is the war to spread freedom. it is the war to bring third world countries to the 21st century. we are not a power hungry war mongering country. we just happen to be the richest most powerful country in the world. obviously our way of living and governing and conducting business is working. unfortunately many believe that by having democracy and the “vote” the middle east will be transformed. I believe it wont be until the roots of individual achievement and capitalism take hold that we see a sustainable change.
Aaron
September 20, 2006 - 07:38 AM on September 20th, 2006
I meant to address the above to post #5 sorry
Aaron
September 20, 2006 - 07:43 AM on September 20th, 2006
5- Matthias, this is not just about 9/11. This is a real threat facing the world. And 9/11 was not the only attack..you forgot about the 93′ attack at the WTC, the USS Cole etc…
Are we to cocern ourselves with only the successful attacks? How many have been thwarted? Why did a nun get murdered?
No Matthias, civilized people do not bomb GM for traffic accidents..they use the law rather than bombs
Yes Matthias, we have gone after the fast food chains and educated people on the harm they are doing by eating processed food..EDUCATION Matthias, not violence.
Yes Matthias, we have has a “War on Poverty” going on. Reference the Lyndon Johnson “Great Society” and you will learn about it. In our society, the liberals feel that paying the poor to stay down is a good thing. It breeds ignorance, and generations of people that are government dependent!
Obviously, you are missing a lot here! The radicals have set the tone for this entire war. The moderates are fueling the flames with their silence!
September 20, 2006 - 07:45 AM on September 20th, 2006
Well said Aaron!:smile:
September 20, 2006 - 08:23 AM on September 20th, 2006
#5 are you joking? You list things like traffic accidents as greater than or similar to a situation where war has been declared? What are you smoking?
September 20, 2006 - 12:22 PM on September 20th, 2006
So Aaron and Peejz,
I guess will all agree that people somehow realize of the other threats in the world that reduce the world population and there may be some initiatives to reduce those threats, but isn’t the budget spent for the war against terror much much higher for a gain that is (compared to the amount of lost human life) quite unproportional?
Example:
I came back two weeks ago from my vacation in the turkish city Antalya. A week ago there were three or four bombings in Turkey committed by the terrororganization PKK. A lot of colleagues and friends ask me befor my trip: Hey, aren’t you afraid of the terrorists?
I responded: There’ve been hundreds of traffic accidents with hundreds of people dying in the last couple of months in Turkey (and everywhere else in the world) and less than a dozen people being killed by this bombing series- but I don’t stop traveling to other countries because of the danger of being hit by a car- why should I be more afraid of being hit by a bomb?
September 20, 2006 - 12:43 PM on September 20th, 2006
Most people don’t set out to intentionally cause or be involved in a traffic accident. Unlike terrorism.
September 20, 2006 - 01:15 PM on September 20th, 2006
11- just because you don’t live your life in constant fear of terrorist thugs, which I applaud you for, does not mean that the threat is something to be ignored or taken lightly. as of this time in history the terror groups have been held in check by the fact that their money, fire-power, and networks have been relatively small. (compared to the might and wealth of armies from the US, UK, Israel, etc…) however the course of mankind will be forever changed and human progress stalled if these lunatic fringes are allowed grow and proliferate, and god help us, come into the possession of nukes or biological weapons. this is why the war on terror must be one we win. it is far easier to strike down an enemy early in their life than allow them to grow and strengthen themselves while you sit idly by. to believe for a second that the threat will disappear, as if it never existed in the first place, is beyond wishful thinking. it borders on insanity. you seem intelligent enough, surely you can see the threat for what it is. can’t you?
Aaron V
Aaron
September 20, 2006 - 03:15 PM on September 20th, 2006
Matthias said: but isn’t the budget spent for the war against terror much much higher for a gain that is (compared to the amount of lost human life) quite unproportional?
Matthias, wouldn’t the amount spent arming the jihad be better spent on the poor, uneducated hungry citizens of the world? Equating terrorism to traffic accidents is actually quite ignorant. And I am not quite sure where the concern for our monies being spent on terrorism is coming from….are we not paying for the war and still the number 1 humanitarian supplier to the world?
September 20, 2006 - 04:21 PM on September 20th, 2006
Re: Post #5:
“Folks:
There has been ONE “successful”severe terror incident caused by muslim radicals in the history of your country.”
That is patently false:
The USS Cole
“The Marine Barracks Attacks
The various attacks against US Embassies
The 1993 Attack against the WTC.
“*Each year thousands of people die by traffic accidents- do we bomb General Motors or Volkswagen?”
This uses broken reasoning. And accident, by definition, is not purposeful.
“Each year thousands of people die from the unhealthy food they eat- is there an organisation called Anti-BurgerKing-Security?”
Again, broken reasoning. People choose to eat at BK. They are responsible for their actions.
“*Each year thousands of people die of diseases, starvation and wars- is there a “war against povertyâ€?”
Actually, yes there is. Perhaps ypou should check your history or Google as it was started by a fellow liberal of yours. That said, Aaron also answered very nicely.
“Why do you people see the “War against terror”as the number one threat to the civilized world? Am I missing something?”
I see it as the #2 threat, as #1 is George Soros.
September 20, 2006 - 05:28 PM on September 20th, 2006
Yes Matthias, we have has a “War on Poverty”going on. Reference the Lyndon Johnson “Great Society”and you will learn about it. In our society, the liberals feel that paying the poor to stay down is a good thing. It breeds ignorance, and generations of people that are government dependent!
That’s right, and something like $5T has been spent on it to date. We’re now into the third generation of professional poor just since this program started.
September 20, 2006 - 09:34 PM on September 20th, 2006
Why should we continue to allow this whole rotten UN and all those terrorist supporting nations to meet in this nation maybe its past time to kick the whole rotten UN out of america tear down that ugly eye sore building and have absolutly nothing to do with the UN and its thugs i say the UN can move to HANOI or HO CHI MIN CITY we can replace the stinkin UN building with a theme park:mad:
September 20, 2006 - 11:49 PM on September 20th, 2006
While I am no fan of the UN, I did here a logical reason to keep it in the US. By keeping it in the US, it gives us a place to go and inform other countries openly that their actions are unacceptable, and unless they change, we may be forced to take actions that neither of us are going to necessarily like.It basically gives us a forum by which to advise countries that they need to improve how they treat others or face the consequences.
September 21, 2006 - 03:12 AM on September 21st, 2006
This uses broken reasoning. And accident, by definition, is not purposeful.
“Each year thousands of people die from the unhealthy food they eat- is there an organisation called Anti-BurgerKing-Security?â€
Again, broken reasoning. People choose to eat at BK. They are responsible for their actions.
So it is a morally based justification to say:
I rather respect a 4 to 6-digit number of people to die because they willingly chose the risks that lead to their death (or in the case of poverty the general unjustice of the world itself) and the economical damage (e.g. for the health system) that it is leading to
than
a (just within the last 5 years) 4-digit-number of terror victims because it was committed by evil intention of some evil/mad people
and as a consequence spend at least the same amount of money to fight it although there were between ten or hundred times less victims. Do I understand you right?
We most likely have different views on this, but if I had the choice (and it’s a tough one) between saving 10.000 people for the sake of letting 1.000 other people die or vice versa- I would know what to do…
September 21, 2006 - 06:25 AM on September 21st, 2006
But Matthias- we have a chice to save BOTH! We can be just as concerned about terrorism as we are about health issues and traffic accidents. Why would we need to choose?
As for the money sent? Agaim, why the concern? You haven’t addressed it. I believe that all of us are willing the money necessary to protect this country from a terrorist attack.
What I am seeing from your posts is that you are somehow saying terrorism is no biggie, you have a greater chance of getting hit by a car so don’t worry about terrorism. That just isn’t going to happen.
September 21, 2006 - 10:27 AM on September 21st, 2006
Weighing the risk of terrorism against risks from accidental (including non-preventablea) causes is a useless exercise. That’s an example of Liberal relativism and rationalization. Not acceptable to a Conservative. A Conservative says kill the terrorist before he kills you.
As we have already pointed out before, a terrorist can do a whole lot of damage far beyond the immediate crime. I think about that every time I go to the airport. Thousands of people every day, having to take their shoes off to go through security, all because of one low-life bastard and his shoe bomb, which didn’t even work.
BTW, I would have executed Richard Reeves for that long ago. I would have shoved pig entrails into his mouth then put a round through his head.
September 21, 2006 - 12:14 PM on September 21st, 2006
we have a chice to save BOTH! We can be just as concerned about terrorism as we are about health issues and traffic accidents. Why would we need to choose?
Simply because it is fucking too expensive!
The terrorists are winning this war- not militarywise but economically and (talking about international popularity) also in a political sense.
If the US Armay wants to kill a (real) terrorist the whole intelligence overhead and the technological effort probably costs a figure beyond 10.000$… probably more. If a terrorist in “Whateverstan” wants to do a terrorassault he grabs some idiot who is willing to blow himself right into paradise and TNT for some bucks and that’s it. The decay of the western world’s economy within the last five years says enough…
Politically the “War against terror” has created much more sympathy for Al Quaeda in the poor muslim countries than it could minimize the number of terrorists… Your president wanted to gain popularity in his country by making this the number one topic but at the same time he created an “Anti-Bush”-Fanclub from Marocco to Indonesia. Okay, the people there wouldn’t be eligible to vote in the US anyway… but was it really worth it?
September 21, 2006 - 12:31 PM on September 21st, 2006
22- Maybe you can put a price on you life, but many of us can’t Matthias. We can’t afford not to fight them. You know, I can’t help but think that enery you are spending to convice us not to fight might be better spent on your inlaws..convince them to take to the streetsto denounce the actions of the terrorists.
It isn’t the US that is losing the war…it is the do-nothing Muslims that don’t have a choice but to go along with the terrorists.:roll:
September 22, 2006 - 04:53 AM on September 22nd, 2006
You know, I can’t help but think that enery you are spending to convice us not to fight might be better spent on your inlaws..convince them to take to the streetsto denounce the actions of the terrorists.
Do I go on the street because Christians in Ireland are terrorizing eachothers children just because they are catholics or anglicans?
Do I go out on the street because white people somewhere in the world do something evil to other white (or non-white) people just because I’m white?
Am I doing protests because I am a member of the upper middle class and somewhere on earth upper middle class folks are exploiting or better treated than poor people?
The muslims, that I know live in my country and are absolutely normal people-. Their religion is (on the paper) the only thing that they have in common with those radicals and the only thing they could reach at the radicals would be to be hated as well. If I tell you that the large majority of muslims does not approve violence, terror or murder, you can believe me (or choose to do not not… whatever).
Maybe you can put a price on you life, but many of us can’t Matthias.
I don’t like myself sounding like fucking Stalin (”a million deaths is a statistic”), but it is a defense budget that the money is spent for- so to me it rather sounds like your party is spending a whole lot of money to “put a price on human life” paid by the death of a lot of people including a whole bunch of innocent civilians and of course your soldiers abroad! Money that could be used for much better purposes…
September 22, 2006 - 07:09 AM on September 22nd, 2006
This is the money quote from Matthias: Their religion is (on the paper) the only thing that they have in common with those radicals and the only thing they could reach at the radicals would be to be hated as well. So because they would be hated they do nothing. That is what this boilsdown to. It has nothing to do with money, it has everything to do with saving their own lives. Thanks for confirming what we knew.
Because of your totally normal Muslims, we have no choice but to fight…