Comments on: Sam Harris: “liberalism has grown dangerously out of touch with the realities of our world” http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/ in all matter of opinion, our adversaries are insane. Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:05:09 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Peejz http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/comment-page-1/#comment-250830 Peejz Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:09:00 +0000 http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/#comment-250830 This is the money quote from Matthias: <strong>Their religion is (on the paper) the only thing that they have in common with those radicals and the only thing they could reach at the radicals would be to be hated as well.</strong> So because they would be hated they do nothing. That is what this boilsdown to. It has nothing to do with money, it has everything to do with saving their own lives. Thanks for confirming what we knew. Because of your <em>totally normal </em>Muslims, we have no choice but to fight... This is the money quote from Matthias: Their religion is (on the paper) the only thing that they have in common with those radicals and the only thing they could reach at the radicals would be to be hated as well. So because they would be hated they do nothing. That is what this boilsdown to. It has nothing to do with money, it has everything to do with saving their own lives. Thanks for confirming what we knew.

Because of your totally normal Muslims, we have no choice but to fight…

]]> By: Matthias Roggenbuck http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/comment-page-1/#comment-250813 Matthias Roggenbuck Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:53:56 +0000 http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/#comment-250813 <em>You know, I can't help but think that enery you are spending to convice us not to fight might be better spent on your inlaws..convince them to take to the streetsto denounce the actions of the terrorists.</em> Do I go on the street because Christians in Ireland are terrorizing eachothers children just because they are catholics or anglicans? Do I go out on the street because white people somewhere in the world do something evil to other white (or non-white) people just because I'm white? Am I doing protests because I am a member of the upper middle class and somewhere on earth upper middle class folks are exploiting or better treated than poor people? The muslims, that I know live in my country and are absolutely normal people-. Their religion is (on the paper) the only thing that they have in common with those radicals and the only thing they could reach at the radicals would be to be hated as well. If I tell you that the large majority of muslims does not approve violence, terror or murder, you can believe me (or choose to do not not... whatever). <em>Maybe you can put a price on you life, but many of us can't Matthias.</em> I don't like myself sounding like fucking Stalin ("a million deaths is a statistic"), but it is a defense budget that the money is spent for- so to me it rather sounds like your party is spending a whole lot of money to "put a price on human life" paid by the death of a lot of people including a whole bunch of innocent civilians and of course your soldiers abroad! Money that could be used for much better purposes... You know, I can’t help but think that enery you are spending to convice us not to fight might be better spent on your inlaws..convince them to take to the streetsto denounce the actions of the terrorists.

Do I go on the street because Christians in Ireland are terrorizing eachothers children just because they are catholics or anglicans?
Do I go out on the street because white people somewhere in the world do something evil to other white (or non-white) people just because I’m white?
Am I doing protests because I am a member of the upper middle class and somewhere on earth upper middle class folks are exploiting or better treated than poor people?

The muslims, that I know live in my country and are absolutely normal people-. Their religion is (on the paper) the only thing that they have in common with those radicals and the only thing they could reach at the radicals would be to be hated as well. If I tell you that the large majority of muslims does not approve violence, terror or murder, you can believe me (or choose to do not not… whatever).

Maybe you can put a price on you life, but many of us can’t Matthias.
I don’t like myself sounding like fucking Stalin (”a million deaths is a statistic”), but it is a defense budget that the money is spent for- so to me it rather sounds like your party is spending a whole lot of money to “put a price on human life” paid by the death of a lot of people including a whole bunch of innocent civilians and of course your soldiers abroad! Money that could be used for much better purposes…

]]> By: Peejz http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/comment-page-1/#comment-250680 Peejz Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:31:31 +0000 http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/#comment-250680 22- Maybe you can put a price on you life, but many of us can't Matthias. We can't afford not to fight them. You know, I can't help but think that enery you are spending to convice us not to fight might be better spent on your inlaws..convince them to take to the streetsto denounce the actions of the terrorists. It isn't the US that is losing the war...it is the do-nothing Muslims that don't have a choice but to go along with the terrorists.:roll: 22- Maybe you can put a price on you life, but many of us can’t Matthias. We can’t afford not to fight them. You know, I can’t help but think that enery you are spending to convice us not to fight might be better spent on your inlaws..convince them to take to the streetsto denounce the actions of the terrorists.

It isn’t the US that is losing the war…it is the do-nothing Muslims that don’t have a choice but to go along with the terrorists.:roll:

]]> By: Matthias Roggenbuck http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/comment-page-1/#comment-250677 Matthias Roggenbuck Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:14:34 +0000 http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/#comment-250677 <em>we have a chice to save BOTH! We can be just as concerned about terrorism as we are about health issues and traffic accidents. Why would we need to choose?</em> Simply because it is fucking too expensive! The terrorists are winning this war- not militarywise but economically and (talking about international popularity) also in a political sense. If the US Armay wants to kill a (real) terrorist the whole intelligence overhead and the technological effort probably costs a figure beyond 10.000$... probably more. If a terrorist in "Whateverstan" wants to do a terrorassault he grabs some idiot who is willing to blow himself right into paradise and TNT for some bucks and that's it. The decay of the western world's economy within the last five years says enough... Politically the "War against terror" has created much more sympathy for Al Quaeda in the poor muslim countries than it could minimize the number of terrorists... Your president wanted to gain popularity in his country by making this the number one topic but at the same time he created an "Anti-Bush"-Fanclub from Marocco to Indonesia. Okay, the people there wouldn't be eligible to vote in the US anyway... but was it really worth it? we have a chice to save BOTH! We can be just as concerned about terrorism as we are about health issues and traffic accidents. Why would we need to choose?

Simply because it is fucking too expensive!
The terrorists are winning this war- not militarywise but economically and (talking about international popularity) also in a political sense.
If the US Armay wants to kill a (real) terrorist the whole intelligence overhead and the technological effort probably costs a figure beyond 10.000$… probably more. If a terrorist in “Whateverstan” wants to do a terrorassault he grabs some idiot who is willing to blow himself right into paradise and TNT for some bucks and that’s it. The decay of the western world’s economy within the last five years says enough…

Politically the “War against terror” has created much more sympathy for Al Quaeda in the poor muslim countries than it could minimize the number of terrorists… Your president wanted to gain popularity in his country by making this the number one topic but at the same time he created an “Anti-Bush”-Fanclub from Marocco to Indonesia. Okay, the people there wouldn’t be eligible to vote in the US anyway… but was it really worth it?

]]> By: Robert http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/comment-page-1/#comment-250643 Robert Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:27:40 +0000 http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/#comment-250643 Weighing the risk of terrorism against risks from accidental (including non-preventablea) causes is a useless exercise. That's an example of Liberal relativism and rationalization. Not acceptable to a Conservative. A Conservative says kill the terrorist <em>before</em> he kills you. As we have already pointed out before, a terrorist can do a whole lot of damage far beyond the immediate crime. I think about that every time I go to the airport. Thousands of people every day, having to take their shoes off to go through security, all because of one low-life bastard and his shoe bomb, which didn't even work. BTW, I would have executed Richard Reeves for that <em>long</em> ago. I would have shoved pig entrails into his mouth then put a round through his head. Weighing the risk of terrorism against risks from accidental (including non-preventablea) causes is a useless exercise. That’s an example of Liberal relativism and rationalization. Not acceptable to a Conservative. A Conservative says kill the terrorist before he kills you.

As we have already pointed out before, a terrorist can do a whole lot of damage far beyond the immediate crime. I think about that every time I go to the airport. Thousands of people every day, having to take their shoes off to go through security, all because of one low-life bastard and his shoe bomb, which didn’t even work.

BTW, I would have executed Richard Reeves for that long ago. I would have shoved pig entrails into his mouth then put a round through his head.

]]> By: Peejz http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/comment-page-1/#comment-250614 Peejz Thu, 21 Sep 2006 12:25:31 +0000 http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/#comment-250614 But Matthias- we have a chice to save <strong>BOTH</strong>! We can be just as concerned about terrorism as we are about health issues and traffic accidents. Why would we need to choose? As for the money sent? Agaim, why the concern? You haven't addressed it. I believe that all of us are willing the money necessary to protect this country from a terrorist attack. What I am seeing from your posts is that you are somehow saying terrorism is no biggie, you have a greater chance of getting hit by a car so don't worry about terrorism. That just isn't going to happen. But Matthias- we have a chice to save BOTH! We can be just as concerned about terrorism as we are about health issues and traffic accidents. Why would we need to choose?

As for the money sent? Agaim, why the concern? You haven’t addressed it. I believe that all of us are willing the money necessary to protect this country from a terrorist attack.

What I am seeing from your posts is that you are somehow saying terrorism is no biggie, you have a greater chance of getting hit by a car so don’t worry about terrorism. That just isn’t going to happen.

]]> By: Matthias Roggenbuck http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/comment-page-1/#comment-250593 Matthias Roggenbuck Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:12:56 +0000 http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/#comment-250593 <em>This uses broken reasoning. And accident, by definition, is not purposeful. "Each year thousands of people die from the unhealthy food they eat- is there an organisation called Anti-BurgerKing-Security?” Again, broken reasoning. People choose to eat at BK. They are responsible for their actions.</em> So it is a morally based justification to say: I rather respect a 4 to 6-digit number of people to die because they willingly chose the risks that lead to their death (or in the case of poverty the general unjustice of the world itself) and the economical damage (e.g. for the health system) that it is leading to than a (just within the last 5 years) 4-digit-number of terror victims because it was committed by evil intention of some evil/mad people and as a consequence spend at least the same amount of money to fight it although there were between ten or hundred times less victims. Do I understand you right? We most likely have different views on this, but if I had the choice (and it's a tough one) between saving 10.000 people for the sake of letting 1.000 other people die or vice versa- I would know what to do... This uses broken reasoning. And accident, by definition, is not purposeful.

“Each year thousands of people die from the unhealthy food they eat- is there an organisation called Anti-BurgerKing-Security?”

Again, broken reasoning. People choose to eat at BK. They are responsible for their actions.

So it is a morally based justification to say:
I rather respect a 4 to 6-digit number of people to die because they willingly chose the risks that lead to their death (or in the case of poverty the general unjustice of the world itself) and the economical damage (e.g. for the health system) that it is leading to

than

a (just within the last 5 years) 4-digit-number of terror victims because it was committed by evil intention of some evil/mad people
and as a consequence spend at least the same amount of money to fight it although there were between ten or hundred times less victims. Do I understand you right?

We most likely have different views on this, but if I had the choice (and it’s a tough one) between saving 10.000 people for the sake of letting 1.000 other people die or vice versa- I would know what to do…

]]> By: FrmrArtyOffcr http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/comment-page-1/#comment-250562 FrmrArtyOffcr Thu, 21 Sep 2006 05:49:26 +0000 http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/#comment-250562 While I am no fan of the UN, I did here a logical reason to keep it in the US. By keeping it in the US, it gives us a place to go and inform other countries openly that their actions are unacceptable, and unless they change, we may be forced to take actions that neither of us are going to necessarily like.It basically gives us a forum by which to advise countries that they need to improve how they treat others or face the consequences. While I am no fan of the UN, I did here a logical reason to keep it in the US. By keeping it in the US, it gives us a place to go and inform other countries openly that their actions are unacceptable, and unless they change, we may be forced to take actions that neither of us are going to necessarily like.It basically gives us a forum by which to advise countries that they need to improve how they treat others or face the consequences.

]]> By: snowy egret http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/comment-page-1/#comment-250548 snowy egret Thu, 21 Sep 2006 03:34:08 +0000 http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/#comment-250548 Why should we continue to allow this whole rotten UN and all those terrorist supporting nations to meet in this nation maybe its past time to kick the whole rotten UN out of america tear down that ugly eye sore building and have absolutly nothing to do with the UN and its thugs i say the UN can move to HANOI or HO CHI MIN CITY we can replace the stinkin UN building with a theme park:mad: Why should we continue to allow this whole rotten UN and all those terrorist supporting nations to meet in this nation maybe its past time to kick the whole rotten UN out of america tear down that ugly eye sore building and have absolutly nothing to do with the UN and its thugs i say the UN can move to HANOI or HO CHI MIN CITY we can replace the stinkin UN building with a theme park:mad:

]]> By: Robert http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/comment-page-1/#comment-250519 Robert Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:28:44 +0000 http://rightvoices.com/2006/09/19/sam-harris-liberalism-has-grown-dangerously-out-of-touch-with-the-realities-of-our-world/#comment-250519 <em>Yes Matthias, we have has a "War on Poverty"going on. Reference the Lyndon Johnson "Great Society"and you will learn about it. In our society, the liberals feel that paying the poor to stay down is a good thing. It breeds ignorance, and generations of people that are government dependent!</em> That's right, and something like $5T has been spent on it to date. We're now into the third generation of professional poor just since this program started. Yes Matthias, we have has a “War on Poverty”going on. Reference the Lyndon Johnson “Great Society”and you will learn about it. In our society, the liberals feel that paying the poor to stay down is a good thing. It breeds ignorance, and generations of people that are government dependent!

That’s right, and something like $5T has been spent on it to date. We’re now into the third generation of professional poor just since this program started.

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