I Guess It’s Not Imposing When The New York Times Does It
New York Times calls for deferring Saddam’s execution
The New York Times called for the deferment of former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein’s execution, saying Iraq had not received “full justice.”
The newspaper, which is opposed to the death penalty, said Iraq not only needed to hold Saddam fully accountable for his atrocities but also to heal and educate the nation he “ruthlessly divided.”The toppled Iraqi leader was sentenced Sunday to die by hanging for ordering the deaths of 148 Shiite residents of Dujail, north of Baghdad, after a 1982 assassination attempt.
“But Iraq got neither the full justice nor the full fairness it deserved,” it said in an editorial.
“President Bush overreached in calling the trial ‘a milestone in the Iraqi peoples efforts to replace the rule of a tyrant with the rule of law.’” (so following their own law is not good?)
The paper expressed regret that dominant Shiite and Kurdish politicians “have been determined to use Mr. Hussein’s trial and punishment to further their own political ends, as Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki has continued to do in recent days.” (well I guess it’s not limited to the administration)
The editorial called for deferring the death penalty “long enough to allow the completion of a second trial, in which Mr. Hussein is charged with ordering genocidal massacres against the Kurds.”
November 6, 2006 - 06:45 PM on November 6th, 2006
I’ve been saying since the beginning that if the Dems had a chance they would put Saddam right back into power.
Doesn’t this just prove the thought has been there?
November 6, 2006 - 07:13 PM on November 6th, 2006
“Doesn’t this just prove the thought has been there?â€
No. Stop talking like an idiot. It doesn’t prove anything other than the opinions of the lead editors at the New York Times.
November 6, 2006 - 07:37 PM on November 6th, 2006
Why is Iraq always about Republicans and Democrats??
I’ve been reading a lot about the history of the people who are now Iraqi. At this point I seriously doubt that a stably democracy is possible in Iraq regardless of what America does.
The whole Iraqi tribal mentality is so misunderstood by the American policy makers that I doubt anything that America is capable of doing in Iraq will ever achieve the vision we would all love to see. (i.e. A Democratic, stable, secular Iraq) If it was even possible; the opportunity was squandered 3+ years ago by an administration that failed to deal with the all important details and nuances of Iraq.
The British studies of Iraq from 30 – 80 years ago are very educational.
“Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.â€
November 6, 2006 - 11:43 PM on November 6th, 2006
Why is Iraq always about Republicans and Democrats?? I could be wrong, but isn’t it the issue that the left chose to run on?
If it was even possible; the opportunity was squandered 3+ years ago 1 opportunity was squandered Zelda, not every opportunity..
November 6, 2006 - 11:53 PM on November 6th, 2006
Democracy is a possibility in Iraq, it’ll just have to be a republic not a pure democracy. Now getting the Sunnis to agree to being the minority party (like the Dems) may be tough, but what is life without a challenge. The quickest way to put the breaks on a lot of the Sunni insurgency is to introduce Saddam to a short rope and a long drop. It may lead to violence in the short term, but it will put an eventual end to the violence from the Saddam loyalists who are mistakenly dreaming that he may one day be returned to power.
November 7, 2006 - 12:05 AM on November 7th, 2006
5- Talk is that he hangs at the end of January.
November 7, 2006 - 01:28 AM on November 7th, 2006
HOW IRAN BECAME SYRIA’S MASTER
November 7, 2006 - 08:31 AM on November 7th, 2006
Give the chance and the NYTs would be there demanding that saddam be spared becuase he is a liberal after all liberals are always in favor of big goverment:razz:
November 7, 2006 - 07:41 PM on November 7th, 2006
Saddam is a dead man.
FrmrArtyOffcr;
“Now getting the Sunnis to agree to being the minority party (like the Dems) may be tough, but what is life without a challenge.”
That is such an American statement. You are thinking like an American. So are President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld. Thinking like Americans is why America’s vision in Iraq is going to fail.
Honestly. Are you retarded? The Democrats are going to regain control some day. Are you only looking at tomorrow? It might be 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, etc. years but it will happen.
November 7, 2006 - 08:33 PM on November 7th, 2006
Actually Zelda you are the retarded one. Braindead.
November 8, 2006 - 04:32 PM on November 8th, 2006
Could you please explain why I am the retarded one? I would love to hear.
November 8, 2006 - 05:27 PM on November 8th, 2006
That is such an American statement. You are thinking like an American. So are President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld. Thinking like Americans is why America’s vision in Iraq is going to fail. This would be a good start Bon Bon…you could point out to Zelda how ridiculous the statement is and what it lacks in order to complete her thought…
November 8, 2006 - 05:33 PM on November 8th, 2006
“You are thinking like an American.”
I am curious Zelda, what exactly does this mean?
November 8, 2006 - 06:05 PM on November 8th, 2006
Let me guess. Perhaps we should think like the terrorists.
[sarcasm on]
Let’s start by taking all the prisoners we have (start with Gitmo) and publicly beheading them. We’ll put the video on the internet and maybe Fox news.
Then we’ll institute a new policy: For every new terrorist suspect captured, their entire family will be hunted down and killed. Their DNA, as much as possible, will be removed from the gene pool.
Every terrorist beheaded, and every family member killed, will be dabbed with pig blood so that they will not enter heaven.
That’s just a start. There’s plenty more. We could grant amnesty to families of illegal aliens who volunteer to be suicide bombers for us. Strap on a bomb vest, run into an “insurgent” party, and blammo!!! Cool, huh?
Whaddya think? It sure would get their attention…
November 8, 2006 - 06:57 PM on November 8th, 2006
Peejz…you are a dear. I can’t stand it when someone acts superior to others and starts calling them names just for the sake of meanness. I shouldn’t have let her get to me at all I suppose.
But as to your statement and to Roberts I would have to say that there is sometimes alot to be said about thinking like your enemies. We have a proud history of being Americans and following the rules of law and generally acting more civilized. We have a positive attitude and we care. Sometimes that is our mistake but it’s an honorable mistake.
We will never act as barbaric as the terrorists but with Saddam given the sentence he has been given in Iraq maybe a public execution would be in order and symbolically in our best interests. I would also suggest that given the timeline of his crimes it should be swift and without a long appeal process. After all everyone knows he’s guilty.
As for the New York Times they should keep out of it.
November 8, 2006 - 07:07 PM on November 8th, 2006
12 and 13;
Okay; I will try to explain my point. (Please; I’m trying to reach across party/ideology lines here)
The whole issue of dealing with Islam, Terrorists, Afghanistan, and Iraq is a complicated problem. The American mindset of dropping 200,000 Rambo’s in the Middle East to kill the problem is not going to work in this case. If we don’t understand the culture, tribal mentality, history, economic problems, religious issues, etc. we won’t be able to effectively deal with the threat and we will needlessly endanger our troops.
We can not kill our way to victory in the War on Terror.
If we don’t understand these people, we won’t achieve full victory. I want to defeat the terrorists as much as the rest of you; but I think that in order to do that we have to fight smarter.
November 8, 2006 - 07:14 PM on November 8th, 2006
“I can’t stand it when someone acts superior to others and starts calling them namesâ€
We are all guilty of that…
Listen; with the election results of yesterday I am going to try to be nicer.
November 8, 2006 - 07:20 PM on November 8th, 2006
16- That is how you used to put forth a debate..would love to see more of that! That makes a heck of a lot more sense:wink:
November 8, 2006 - 07:44 PM on November 8th, 2006
I know… I know.
This might sound strange, but the Lebanese attack on Israel really frustrated me. I thought to myself how could the moderates of Lebanon not stand up to the extremist who would do something so crazy and stupid.
It made me think that I should be more aggressive with what I saw as extremist and ineffective opinions here in America.
Anyway, I will step away from the negative attacks. We are all here in America together and an effective and smart effort in Iraq and Afghanistan and against the terrorists and other threats is in all of our best interests.
November 8, 2006 - 08:00 PM on November 8th, 2006
Found on DemocraticUnderground: the high road
Dear dismayed conservatives:
I hereby make these promises to you.
We will protect your lives and livelihoods.
We will listen to and respect your beliefs.
We will never try to force you to change your religion, sexual orientation, or first language.
We will do our best to reduce the number of abortions in our country.
We will have no tolerance for corruption and cronyism, even in our own party.
ESPECIALLY in our own party.
We will never tell you that you are unpatriotic.
We will never tell you that your opinion doesn’t count.
We will never waste your lives for power.
We will hold our leaders to a high ethical standard and when they succumb to lust for power, WE WILL HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE.
If we forget this, please, please, please, remind us.
We need you to do this. You are America as much as we are.
Let’s go.
November 8, 2006 - 08:04 PM on November 8th, 2006
And when exactly will all these wonderful promises start happening?
November 8, 2006 - 08:05 PM on November 8th, 2006
Re 16:
“The American mindset of dropping 200,000 Rambo’s in the Middle East to kill the problem is not going to work in this case.”
Why exactly do you think this is “the American mindset”?
November 8, 2006 - 08:07 PM on November 8th, 2006
Re 20:
Why do I find much of that hard to beleive?
November 8, 2006 - 08:11 PM on November 8th, 2006
Re 20, once again:
I was wondering:
“We will never tell you that your opinion doesn’t count.”
If this is true, then why is it that when anyone posts there who is not of the liberal mindset banned, even when seeking a legitimate discussion?
Excuse me SFL, by I find the stench of DU’s hypocrisy unappealing.
November 8, 2006 - 08:21 PM on November 8th, 2006
20- uh..I guess it would depend on how high the ethical standard is, cause last time I checked, Florida Rep. Alcee Hastings is still serving in the Congress.
November 8, 2006 - 08:53 PM on November 8th, 2006
22:
“Why exactly do you think this is “the American mindsetâ€?”
Okay fine. You got me. That wasn’t a brilliant statement.
I was referring to how America has been dealing with the issues in Iraq. The “American mindset”as I meant it was the way in which we are fighting the war in Iraq. As I saw it when I wrote that, it was a strategy in which we (i.e. Americans) don’t understand the tribal, political, religious, ethnic and every other issue that Iraqi’s are concerned with.
November 8, 2006 - 09:30 PM on November 8th, 2006
Okay, I see what you mean, but I don’t agree.
I think the geo-political situation in Iraq is better understood than you think. If we were taking the “country of Rambo” appraoch, we would have had 500,000 troops on the ground, would be bombing the crap out of everything less discriminently and would have had the area under control by now, although under much worse circumstances for the region. The boarders would be sealed, and there would be a truly stricter military occupation.
November 9, 2006 - 07:11 PM on November 9th, 2006
“Okay, I see what you mean, but I don’t agree.â€
I think that is exactly why the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan aren’t going well. Few would agree with me that the Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan (and our policy makers) misunderstand their culture and that this misunderstanding seriously underminds our efforts and needlessly endangers our troops.
I stand by my opinion. Just one example that I think Americans totally seem to miss is the tribal mindset. American’s do not have a tribal mindset anywhere close to what the Iraqis have. It’s a huge deal, yet it is never talked about here in America.
November 9, 2006 - 09:09 PM on November 9th, 2006
“I think that is exactly why the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan aren’t going well. Few would agree with me that the Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan (and our policy makers) misunderstand their culture and that this misunderstanding seriously underminds our efforts and needlessly endangers our troops.”
With this, I am not sure what you are trying to say. It is worded in a confusing fashion.
I stand by my opinion.
Of course you may.
Just one example that I think Americans totally seem to miss is the tribal mindset. American’s do not have a tribal mindset anywhere close to what the Iraqis have. It’s a huge deal, yet it is never talked about here in America.
Ahem…Cherokee, Sioux, Blackfoot (which incidently, is my tribe…). You forget Americ has a tribal history.
With that said though, if you are talking about American in general, I would agree with that. Most Americans (and people in general) are idiots though. Their complacency and blissful ignorance outside of their own little sphere of influence is what is leading to the downfall of America. (no, I am NOT refering to this election as the conservatives, nor to the 2004 elections as many liberals).
But, I won’t go off on that tirade now, but let’s just say Americ is in the shape it is now not because of the politicians, but because of the people.
I do think though that the tribal aspect of the region is understood by at least some policy makers, or we would have entered the tribal region in Pakistan forcibly and tracked down bin Laden by now. We would have also, as I’m said earlier, taken a much for forceful occupation of Iraq.
November 10, 2006 - 07:28 PM on November 10th, 2006
“With this, I am not sure what you are trying to say. It is worded in a confusing fashion.â€
Well, I’m sorry for that. It is hard to summarize what is inherently a very complicated issue in such a manner that people would actually take the time to read about it. I try though.
“Ahem:Cherokee, Sioux, Blackfoot (which incidently, is my tribe
. You forget Americ has a tribal historyâ€
Ha. Thank you, but I have not forgotten my people. I am part Sioux. The difference is that 100-300 years ago Americans could kill and dislodge Indians with impunity. America doesn’t have the same ability in Iraq.