Update Via Michelle Malkin:
The German government isn’t filing the lawsuit. It’s 11 Iraqis and a Saudi who went court-shopping and filed in Germany because the country “provides ‘universal jurisdiction’ allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take place anywhere in the world.” A previous lawsuit was filed on similar grounds and was dismissed. Yes, Germany has its share of weasels. But German Chancellor Angela Merkel isn’t one of them and outrage at the country is premature. Calls to close our bases in Germany over this hyped news story are, with all due respect, silly.
The lawsuit hasn’t even been filed yet. The Time blurb is a Friday afternoon freebie press release for the left-wing Center for Constitutional Rights–milking Rumsfeld’s resignation for all the publicity they can get.
H/T to Noel Sheppard for this link to Time Magazine, which has an article about a lawsuit being filed in Germany seeking criminal prosecution for Donald Rumsfeld over abuses at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay:
Just days after his resignation, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is about to face more repercussions for his involvement in the troubled wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. New legal documents, to be filed next week with Germany’s top prosecutor, will seek a criminal investigation and prosecution of Rumsfeld, along with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, former CIA director George Tenet and other senior U.S. civilian and military officers, for their alleged roles in abuses committed at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison and at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
The plaintiffs in the case include 11 Iraqis who were prisoners at Abu Ghraib, as well as Mohammad al-Qahtani, a Saudi held at Guantanamo, whom the U.S. has identified as the so-called “20th hijacker” and a would-be participant in the 9/11 hijackings. As TIME first reported in June 2005, Qahtani underwent a “special interrogation plan,” personally approved by Rumsfeld, which the U.S. says produced valuable intelligence. But to obtain it, according to the log of his interrogation and government reports, Qahtani was subjected to forced nudity, sexual humiliation, religious humiliation, prolonged stress positions, sleep deprivation and other controversial interrogation techniques.
Lawyers for the plaintiffs say that one of the witnesses who will testify on their behalf is former Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, the one-time commander of all U.S. military prisons in Iraq. Karpinski ” who the lawyers say will be in Germany next week to publicly address her accusations in the case ” has issued a written statement to accompany the legal filing, which says, in part: “It was clear the knowledge and responsibility [for what happened at Abu Ghraib] goes all the way to the top of the chain of command to the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld .”
Along with Rumsfeld, Gonzales and Tenet, the other defendants in the case are Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence Stephen Cambone; former assistant attorney general Jay Bybee; former deputy assisant attorney general John Yoo; General Counsel for the Department of Defense William James Haynes II; and David S. Addington, Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff. Senior military officers named in the filing are General Ricardo Sanchez, the former top Army official in Iraq; Gen. Geoffrey Miller, the former commander of Guantanamo; senior Iraq commander, Major General Walter Wojdakowski; and Col. Thomas Pappas, the one-time head of military intelligence at Abu Ghraib.
The utter and complete failure of U.S. authorities to take any action to investigate high-level involvement in the torture program could not be clearer,” says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, a U.S.-based non-profit helping to bring the legal action in Germany. He also notes that the Military Commissions Act, a law passed by Congress earlier this year, effectively blocks prosecution in the U.S. of those involved in detention and interrogation abuses of foreigners held abroad in American custody going to back to Sept. 11, 2001. As a result, Ratner contends, the legal arguments underlying the German prosecutor’s previous inaction no longer hold up.
November 10, 2006 - 07:29 PM on November 10th, 2006
Who should be responsible for the death of over 100,000 civilian deaths in Iraq since the country was invaded in March 2003. The facts are the majority of deaths were attributed to violence, which were primarily the result of military actions by Coalition forces. Most of those killed by Coalition forces were women and children. Should it be George bush or Donald Rumsfeld?
November 10, 2006 - 07:38 PM on November 10th, 2006
The insurgents are responsible for the deaths…
November 10, 2006 - 08:05 PM on November 10th, 2006
How about charges agsainst TED KENNEDY for his dirty work with the KGB during to 1980 election thats treason:eek:
November 10, 2006 - 08:53 PM on November 10th, 2006
“The insurgents are responsible for the deaths…”
Come on! This type of view is a large part of why Congresswomen Pelosi is soon to be the Speaker of the House. Congresswomen Pelosi… Speaker of the house!!! I would think that such a thing would be enough to make you rethink the world.
American bombs and bullets have killed a lot of innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan. By ignoring that fact the Republicans are helping the Democrats gain even more control.
November 10, 2006 - 09:18 PM on November 10th, 2006
You silly people, the insurgents or what ever you want to call them from all data and reports are not responsible for a majority of deaths. My sense, and I may be wrong, is a majority of the insurgents (even those from other countries) are fighting what they see are enemy invaders. I mean we did invade the country, did we not? I recently read a Johns Hopkins University study on the killing of civilians and the majority of the deaths have been by American (co) forces.
The bonehead politicians in Washington need to stop listening to those right wing think tanks, and right wing bloggers, who said America would be seen as liberators. Stupid people! America continues to be seen as occupiers, no matter what . Pure and simple. The insurgents as Bush and you Bushites like to call them see our men and women as an occupying force. Until we get out, the insurgents will continue to grow. Kill one, they recruit 5 more. All of the generals on the ground have said the same thing, and also say we can’t kill them all in a ground war. our troops are hiding in the green zone and get picked off one at a time when we come out. great strategy commander and chief. We are in a no win situation. We need to get America’s occupying ass out of Iraq, and let Iraqi’s handle the business of Iraq. The fact is America should have never invaded Iraq, we are stuck there because of lies, bad information from oue agencies, bad foreign policy. now the American people don’t support the war, and like Vietnam someone should be held accountable. The buck stops where?
November 10, 2006 - 09:32 PM on November 10th, 2006
So true AAPP!!! Although I think the number of innocent dead is more like millions, maybe tens of millions!!! The invaders are the ones strapping bombs to innocent freedom fighters, then making them go into public places crowded with civilians! The IEDs and truck and car bombs, responsible for so many dead Iraqis, are made from old captured munitions by the CIA! The masses of bodies found murdered are actually tortured victims from Abu Ghraib and elsewhere “laundered” by making it look like the freedom fighters did it!
Don’t hold back, AAPP! Tell it like it is! Let your true feelings come out!!! Yes tell the world!
November 11, 2006 - 08:34 AM on November 11th, 2006
5- for some one calling others silly, you might want to take a look in the mirror. That report from Johns Hopkins was a survey..it did not have hard facts to back up the deaths it attributed..
November 11, 2006 - 08:40 AM on November 11th, 2006
4- Please Zelda, is everything written going to be attributed to why Pelosi is speaker..it’s silly and tired. We have killed innocent civilians but not the numbers cited by AAPP. AAPP included in his arguement that even the deaths caused by the insurgent should be attributed to Rumsfeld..
November 11, 2006 - 09:03 AM on November 11th, 2006
Original post has been updated with new facts
November 11, 2006 - 03:51 PM on November 11th, 2006
Analyzing the first loss of his 35-year political career, U.S. Rep. Clay Shaw said Friday that if the news about Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld’s resignation had come out before Election Day, he and many other Republicans could have won their re-election bids.
“My first impression was that the extra votes that I needed would have been there,” he said. “I think it could have made a difference in who is running the Congress.”
Will the Republicans turn on their own like vipers?
And will Rumsfeld really take the brunt of the blame?
November 11, 2006 - 05:16 PM on November 11th, 2006
You silly people, the insurgents or what ever you want to call them
How about “terrorists”? Like that better?
…from all data and reports are not responsible for a majority of deaths.
Really? Then who is behind the suicide bombings? Who is behind the mass murders?
Stupid people! America continues to be seen as occupiers, no matter what . Pure and simple.
Yes, of course, by our enemies. Think they’ll like us if we leave Iraq now?
Your post is so filled with inane, oversimplified points it really belongs on DU, or Daily Kos, or some similar venue.
November 11, 2006 - 06:48 PM on November 11th, 2006
“it’s silly and tired”
Fair enough. I’ll abandon my silly and tired comments when the rest of you abandon yours.
November 13, 2006 - 06:15 AM on November 13th, 2006
11- “Stupid people! America continues to be seen as occupiers, no matter what . Pure and simple.
Yes, of course, by our enemies. Think they’ll like us if we leave Iraq now?
Your post is so filled with inane, oversimplified points it really belongs on DU, or Daily Kos, or some similar venue.”
Except for Tony Blair and some silly falcons the whole world see the US forces in Iraq as ocupiers- and we are not your enemy. We are the ones who told you before your invasion that there are/were no WMDs in Iraq!
There is nothing to oversimplify:
9/11 was committed mainly by Arabs, Osama Bin Laden was hidden/protected by the Taliban, the terrorists in the middle east are supported by Iran and people in Iraq are defending against their “liberation”. FULL STOP!
November 13, 2006 - 11:46 AM on November 13th, 2006
We are the ones who told you before your invasion that there are/were no WMDs in Iraq!
Uh-huh. And those chemical WMD Saddam used NEVER existed. The chemical and BIO WMD the U.N. catalogued in Iraq NEVER existed. The large quantity of enriched Uranium we found in Iraq for Saddam’d nuke program NEVER existed.
And France, Germany, and Russia didn’t support the invasion solely because they thought it was wrong!
Corruption in the so-called “oil for Food” program had NOTHING to do with it!
If you were a salesman, you’d be mighty hungry. You can’t sell that here.
November 13, 2006 - 05:01 PM on November 13th, 2006
“There is nothing to oversimplify:
9/11 was committed mainly by Arabs, Osama Bin Laden was hidden/protected by the Taliban, the terrorists in the middle east are supported by Iran and people in Iraq are defending against their “liberationâ€. FULL STOP! ”
Wow, if this is what the Republicans are going to continue to say I’m going to be putting money on a big Democratic victory in 2008.
November 13, 2006 - 05:59 PM on November 13th, 2006
Zelda- Matthias is a German citizen…
November 14, 2006 - 02:55 AM on November 14th, 2006
15&16 –
November 14, 2006 - 03:03 AM on November 14th, 2006
14 – The UN security council didn’t approve the Iraq invasion/”liberation” as there was no valid proof for serious WMDs in Iraq. And if you took the reason that Iraq had a human right violating regime, you’d have to attack half of the world starting with North Corea, Iran, China, Russia, Belarus, Kuba, some countries in SE Asia, Africa, etc etc etc. …
And talking about global security: The US have (together with China & Russia) the most serious WMDs and was involved in more military conflicts in the last hundred years than any other country! Guess of whom the rest of the world is more afraid?
November 14, 2006 - 07:20 AM on November 14th, 2006
Well let’s see..WWI fought against German, WWII, fought against Germans…The UN had a little thing called Oil For Food going on and approving Iraq invasion would have severly cut into profits..Let’s not forget resolution 1441..is there even a point of setting up UN resolutions?
November 14, 2006 - 02:22 PM on November 14th, 2006
Peejz, have you seen this poster & shirts that they sell beinig title “US World Domination Tour”:
http://www.3dsupply.de/3d/shop/produktdetail.php?PID=00000076&KPATH=17
In another shop they sell stuff for egoshooter gamers and also a shirt saying “There are so many assholes and such a few ammunition…”- You should take this sentence into your noble American constitution! …maybe under line which says: every looney may have a gun…
November 14, 2006 - 02:47 PM on November 14th, 2006
19 – The facts are lost on Matthias…he’ll just keep ignoring them and redirecting the argument, as he did in post 18.
November 14, 2006 - 04:53 PM on November 14th, 2006
21- I think a better map would be a world map with $ funds listed for all foreign aid:wink:
November 14, 2006 - 07:01 PM on November 14th, 2006
“Zelda- Matthias is a German citizen:”
Oh wow. That’s probably even worse.
November 14, 2006 - 07:03 PM on November 14th, 2006
23.
He is also an anti-democracy socialist.
Not meant as an insult to him, that is just his self admitted stance.
November 14, 2006 - 07:22 PM on November 14th, 2006
I had a comment. But I deleted it. I’m trying to be nicer.
I’ll have to read more of Matthias Roggenbuck’s work.
November 15, 2006 - 09:39 AM on November 15th, 2006
Ted, what is a “anti-democracy socialist”? Or is it your way of saying: Matthias thinks social and does not allow unsocial behaviour (as a democratic system should do)!
Zelda, wow… I didn’t know I released “work” to read… Thank you!
21- “The facts are lost on Matthias:he’ll just keep ignoring them and redirecting the argument, as he did in post 18.”
Robert, where did I lose the facts at my post #18? Are there any other justification for the Iraq invasion than a) potential WMDs and b) liberation?
If you mean that I ignored your comments on those “WMDs” that have been found. So what about the American WMDs??? What about the human rights violations in Iraq (Abu Ghuraib, civilian losses, etc.)???
Donald Rumsfeld is a rotten son of a bitch who can only be separated from Saddam Hussein by the amount of victims and I wish that he’ll dwell in the same hell as Saddam Hussein. In the name of thousands of Iraqui civilian dead, in the name thousands of the family members of GIs and the GIs themselves who were betrayed to fight for “freedom” in a country where they are seen by a large amount of citizens as occupiers.
If these facts aren’t worth prosecution- which are?!
November 15, 2006 - 09:46 AM on November 15th, 2006
26- You ignored the oil for food..why is that? We have listed the reasons time and again, including the words of the POTUS, but you seem to not be able to recall it..resolution 1441 still comes to mind..
Runsfeld is no such thing Matthias..I think he rubs you the wrong way because he really has no time for such idiotic people such as yourself…Where was your concern for the 1000’s of innocent Iraqis that were gased?
November 15, 2006 - 09:58 AM on November 15th, 2006
Mattias makes me overjoyed that my forefathers and foremothers fled “Der Fatherland” for America. It seems the insane and the Dummkopfs have taken over in Germany.
November 15, 2006 - 11:54 AM on November 15th, 2006
mathias:
Correct me if I am wrong, but you have stated that Democracies do not work, correct? There fore, you are anti-Democracy.
Now, the second part: you believe in an expanded governement system to dole entitlements to it’s citizens, correct? There fore, you are a socialist.
November 15, 2006 - 05:15 PM on November 15th, 2006
PCD: Taken over by Dummkopfs and scheiskopfs
November 15, 2006 - 05:19 PM on November 15th, 2006
And Arschlochs!
Babel Fish is cool…knows these words!
November 15, 2006 - 07:40 PM on November 15th, 2006
I’m starting to like this Matthias Roggenbuck person.
As far as I can tell. He doesn’t support Democracy, He doesn’t think that secretary Rumsfeld did a good job, He lives in Germany and he has better English than many of the Americans who post here.
Let’s hear what he has to say…..
November 16, 2006 - 08:15 AM on November 16th, 2006
Wow guys, that’s a bunch to answer…
27- “Where was your concern for the 1000’s of innocent Iraqis that were gased?”
So a 1000 gased victims is a good justification, to sacrifice several thousands of other Iraqui civilians and abused American soldiers?! Or a violated UN resolution- since when do American conservatives shows sympathy or respect for UN resoultions???
29- “Correct me if I am wrong, but you have stated that Democracies do not work, correct?
If the government and the parliament consists mainly of white & rich people who decide upon the fate of a culturally diverted folk of which in most cases only the poor ones and non-white minorities have to suffer under the negative decisions- What else could I say than “Democracy does not work!”
If it did the government and parliament would reflect the same cultural and attitudewise diversity as the population, wouldn’t it?
Me being a “Socialist” is new… In Germany the conservatives insulted me a being a “Gutmensch”- a word describes a exaggerated naive liberal. I hate that, and if I encountered one of those wankers, they could discuss with my fist how “gut” I am!!
28-31 -”Der Fatherland… Dummkopfs and scheiskopfs… And Arschlochs! Babel Fish is cool:knows these words!”
-Das Vaterland
-Dummkoepfe
-Scheisskoepfe (I never heard that one…!?)
-Arschloecher
Robert, you should rather trust to “Babel Fish” the fish, than “Babel Fish” the webpage…
November 16, 2006 - 08:22 AM on November 16th, 2006
33- So by your reasoning, there is no need for a UN. And why bother in Darfur, it isn’t worth the risk of more people dying to save those being slaughtered..Their government knows what’s best for them.
November 16, 2006 - 09:57 AM on November 16th, 2006
Peejz,
there is no right to start whining about unrespected UN resolution for people who don’t respect them either… Or was there a security council decision to attack Iraq (whatever that would legalize)…?
and… where is the sense in sacrificing 2 lives to save 1 ?!? If there is oppression in a country, people can flee… I mean: it’s not that way, that Saddam’s reign had just begun a couple of months ago. And as long as Saddam was the US governments puppy that helped fighting Iran, none of you complained about what he was doing to his people, did you???
November 16, 2006 - 10:31 AM on November 16th, 2006
35- by your own words, there is no need for a UN. And there is no need to help people…
Question for you: Why did the Germans not put down Hitler before they killed those millions of innocent people? I guess they agreed with him and did it because it was the right thing to do.
November 16, 2006 - 06:55 PM on November 16th, 2006
Re 33:
“If it did the government and parliament would reflect the same cultural and attitudewise diversity as the population, wouldn’t it?”
In the case of a federal reuplic (a representative democracy) this is the case usually…
so my only conclusion is that they do indeed work.
Democracies collapse only when those represented become complacent.
But with that said, I will still assume that you are anti-Democracy.
Me being a “Socialist”is new: In Germany the conservatives insulted me a being a “Gutmenschâ€- a word describes a exaggerated naive liberal. I hate that, and if I encountered one of those wankers, they could discuss with my fist how “gut”I am!!
I am wondering by this sentence if you know what a socialist is?
November 17, 2006 - 06:50 AM on November 17th, 2006
36- There is definitely a need for the UN. You don’t comment on my view that the American conservatives don’t respect it!
This Hitler-thing doesn’t get any better by repeating it in every second thread… The Germans kind of “elected” Hitler 1933. If they had known that he would start a war with 20 million deaths and who murder 6 million people directly and vaporize Germany in advance, they probably wouldn’t have.
Do you think the American public would have approved the Iraq invasion with the knowledge they have today???
37- I dis-approve so-called democratic regimes that are abusing stupid people with pathetic arguments like “Where we are is freedom!” to commit unhuman actions!
You don’t really ask me if I know what socialism is, don’t you? I lived 50km west of the border to East-Germany and also visitted the former socialist half of Germany… How much real life socialism (the political term) have you come in touch with so far, Ted?
November 17, 2006 - 08:08 AM on November 17th, 2006
38- Why is there a need for a UN if it is ok to just ignore resolutions? What is the purpose of that?
The Germans elected Hitler, took land and lives that didn’t belong to them. At any time, they could have stopped it or left the country but they didn’t.