Lester Holt, of NBC, interviewed Jesse Jackson(see video here) about the Michael Richards mess(see video here). Jesse wants to prohibit the use of the word, I assume via the courts. Mark Finkelstein asks if he will take his fight to Def Comedy Jam. Which version of the First Amendment will Jesse rely on for his arguement to ban offensive language? I want to know why Jesse can not work with Bill Cosby to bring discussion to the table and leave the courts out of it? Bill’s message may hurt some feelings, but he isn’t wrong. Well it could be argued that Jesse makes his living offf the misery of his fellow man. By keeping them down, he moves up. Kinda like a pimp. He has done virtually nothing to try to motivate the black community to be self sufficient and responsible. It is better to take from the system because that is what they are owed? In this case, he is speaking up because it was a white man saying the word. Where was his outrage at the black entertainment industry? He did get angry about Barbershop, but as was pointed out, for daring to allow one of its black characters to venture from what Jackson views as the mandatory black party line.
In the end and going forward, when Cosby again slings a heavy rock of criticism and disapproval into another black crowd, the vast majority of people who are going to scream bloody murder still are going to be the people who get hit by the rock.
Regardless of your color or station in life, who doesn’t understand the pain of such a rebuke, especially when you not only want better for yourself but think you’re doing the best you can with what you have?
Nonetheless, in America, the smartest course of action to take will be to do all you can to make sure you’re no longer standing in that crowd when Cosby tosses that rock.
Jackson enabled the free use of the word by remaing silent. Maybe one of those rocks that Bill is tossing will hit him hard enough to knock some sense into him.
Whats wrong dont his royal wretchedness JESSIE JACKASSON believe in FREEDOM OF SPEECH that what happens when you give too much power to some jerk like him and his RAINBOW/PUSH bunch i mean the constitution dont mean anything to these jerks:mad:
Read the book “SHAKEDOWN
Read the book “Shakedown, the real Jessie Jackson, exposed” Jackson is just pure vermin. He’s numerous times has used the “N” word, in describing other “civil rights” black men, who have not bowed to his ranting views. These horrible ‘N’ word black men did’nt worship him as a god. But now he wants the word outlawed? O of course he’ll be exempt from not being allowed to use it. Bill Cosby is too honest for Jacksons taste.
2 and 3- I read it and it was a good book. Jesse didn’t like that either, iirc:lol:
I have the book ‘Shakedown”, and you are right, Jackson is the lowest of the low. The book documents well how JJ is a phony “Reverend” and how he would do anything, including selling out his own Country, for personal advantage.
Why anyone outside his scam artist organized crime gang would care what he says is a travesty.
The “n” word should be stricken from usage by all peoples irrespective of race. The “f” word should be stricken from use irrespective of sexual orientation.
It’s so simple it defies logic that no one gets it.
6- good in theory Eben, but how do you go about doing that?
#7
Well most things are great to begin with in theory but there was a time in my own family group when the “n” word was used freely without regard for who may overhear it. The “k” word was used for Jewish people too. Now, since it’s been so vilified by public outcry, both are just not used.
The thing, I think, that bothers me most is when the “n” word is used among Black people. I have neighbors here who use is as a matter of course to greet one another. When I asked said neighbor “don’t you think you perpetuate the use of it by using it in your own ethnic group?” He replied: “Its different if a white person uses it.
I told him I thought it was no different.
If a word needs to be removed from use just stop saying it. Several days later he said “my brother agrees with you.. and I guess so do I”.
I feel the same about gay people using the “f” word among their own group.
You don’t want it used as a negative epithet? Eliminate it from your vocabulary.
I’m equal to eliminating both words without thinking I’m being oppressed into political correctness. Some things are just left better as vestiges of a prejudiced past.
That’s my ‘theory’ for what it’s worth.
Well said and it makes sense..that was the point I was trying to make with the comparison of Jackson/Cosby…be careful on what you try to legislate as it may come back to bite you..in this case, teach people that the word is unacceptable and you will see it tossed around less.
Eben and Peejz, I must respectively disagree.
IMO the solution to this problem (and the problem to me is not the use of the word, but the racism it represents) is the same solution that would work for Jihads, drug use, smoking and many other problems that onslaughts society. That answer is to marginalize it’s use.
What is it that you are actually disagreeing with us on Ted? I don’t see us not in agreement. Do you think there should be legislation? If so, how do you stop the use of the word and still uphold the 1st amendment?
Legislation?
No- that is an unreasonable level of censorship.
Like I said, I think the answer is to marginalize its use. A very few folks will almost always use it though, at least until it is erased from our collective memories by non-use. That is when it will be fully marginalized.
Ted?
Don’t you think its use is already marginalized in as much as you and I and peejz (assuming we’re all white) would not use it publically and certainly not to a black person?
It’s marginalization is all the much further reinforced by its undoubted occasional use within my own distraught momentary anger when earlier-referenced neighbor takes my parking spot!
Have I used it under my breath? Yes. Do I wish I hadn’t? Of course.
Now then… how to break the habit for good.
There’s the rub.
But generally speaking I think the only way we can truly hope to relegate it to archaic use is to insist that when we’re in mixed company (amidst people of black ancestry) and hear it used – we say something akin to “please don’t use that word in my presence. I find it offensive.”
Within two generations I think the word will be vestigial at best.
I may take three for the “f” word to enjoy a similar fate.
“Don’t you think its use is already marginalized in as much as you and I and peejz (assuming we’re all white) would not use it publically and certainly not to a black person?”
No, not really. What you see now isn’t really marginalization IMO, but political correctness. marginalization would dictate that word word is pretty much forgoten to the point of it’s use being out of place. kind of like the looks on people faces if some one used the terms “23 skidoo!”, “Keep on truckin’” or “golly6 gee!”. It is just removed as a viable part of our collective vocabulary, we out grow it.
No, what dictates the currect use is “political correctness”. People who don’t use it for the most part because it is simply frowned upon in society, like smoking.
12- who should marginalize it then? Right now it is glorified by black people. It is used in song and everyday conversation.
As long as we’re at it, why not also call for the prohibition of such terms as “Hymie town,” “gringo,” “honky mf,” “graymeat,” “oreo,” and the ever popular “wonder bread?”
re #14 No, not really. What you see now isn’t really marginalization IMO, but political correctness. marginalization would dictate that word word is pretty much forgoten to the point of it’s use being out of place. kind of like the looks on people faces if some one used the terms “23 skidoo!â€, “Keep on truckin’”or “golly6 gee!â€. It is just removed as a viable part of our collective vocabulary, we out grow it.
I have no problem as I stated earlier with political correctness if its goal is to eliminate prejudice and bias.
In my world the use of the “n” word Ted is ‘out of place’. Were I to use that among my white friends they’d never stand for it – nor should they.
‘Keep on truckin’ is a vestige of subculture.
It just sounds corny now.
There’s nothing controversial about the use as there is with the “n” word and the “f” word.
I don’t see the comparisons of the phrases you use as comparable in social ramification.
re #15 Yes. I agree with peejz. It is glorified within the black community because of its continued use. Nothing can really be changed and improved unless all people stop using it including those it originally referenced.
Now would anyone like to talk about rap and hip hop music and the Jamaican degradation of the homosexual community? Those bastards are militant and those lyrics are beyond homophobic. Jamaicans are unapologetic in their lyrical slander of homosexuals and finally (it appears) some few in that community are crying foul.
re #16 As long as we’re at it, why not also call for the prohibition of such terms as “Hymie town,”"gringo,”"honky mf,”"graymeat,”"oreo,”and the ever popular “wonder bread?”
I suspect those epithets you reference were invented to counter the “n” words and similar derogatories slurred at our fellow blacks.
In truth I’ve been known to be a bit “white bread” never ‘wonder bread’
myself. 
19- I don’t think that the black community coined those phrases…whites have reffered to the Jews in many different ways, one of which is Hymie…as for the others, does it make it any better when they are used to counter another offense? I think not…
17- re #15 Yes. I agree with peejz. It is glorified within the black community because of its continued use. Nothing can really be changed and improved unless all people stop using it including those it originally referenced.
Now would anyone like to talk about rap and hip hop music and the Jamaican degradation of the homosexual community? Those bastards are militant and those lyrics are beyond homophobic. Jamaicans are unapologetic in their lyrical slander of homosexuals and finally (it appears) some few in that community are crying foul.
That is where I think the lessons that Cosby is trying to convey come in…Something to ponder for you though Eben..what do you think would happen to an employee of any of the recording companies that was overheard making racial slurs or derogatory remarks about homosexuality? My point is, they would be warned and/or fired..but the company can sell the hate..does that make any sense? Talk about assanine logic!
“I have no problem as I stated earlier with political correctness if its goal is to eliminate prejudice and bias.”
The problem here is that PC can’t sucessfully used to eliminate prejudice. The most accurate definition of PC IMO is “Being or perceived as being overconcerned with such change, often to the exclusion of other matters.”. The goal is never to eliminate the prejudice itself, but to be concerned with the perception of such prejudice.
“In my world the use of the “n”word Ted is ‘out of place’. Were I to use that among my white friends they’d never stand for it – nor should they.”
So it is in my world, however the question here is “why?”. If it for PC purposes, then frankly you and your friends are no better than the folks that use it for “sincere” reasons.
“‘Keep on truckin’ is a vestige of subculture.”
As is the use of “nigger” among young black people.
“There’s nothing controversial about the use as there is with the “n”word and the “f”word.”
There is nothing controversial with the use of those words in aforementioned subculture either.
I don’t see the comparisons of the phrases you use as comparable in social ramification.
Those phrases were given not for comparision of severity, but for that of example. At one point the words “suck”, “bitch” and “hell” would also be good examples if you wish to make the comparison in that manner.
Honestly, I see no comparision between the word “fuck” and the word “nigger” though. The word “nigger” did not always have a racial connotation to it, however the languauge evoled. Now the word caries such conotations, which is exactly why it should not be used. “Fuck” doesn’t have those conotations.
It’s just a freaking word.
It is totally hypocritical and racist that black people can say ‘nigger’ and white people can’t.
I think ‘nigger’ needs to be used by more people not less. It would take away the importance of the word and leave us to deal with any real issues that remain.
Ask yourself; are you really offended when someone says ‘damn’? 60 years ago that word was very offensive.
Instead of prohibiting Rev. Bee-bop’s ‘N’ word, how about prohibiting Jessie? If the liberal media, did’nt worship him as God, and fawn on his every ignorant word, he’d just be another ‘N’ n the woodpile!
That is where I think the lessons that Cosby is trying to convey come in:Something to ponder for you though Eben..what do you think would happen to an employee of any of the recording companies that was overheard making racial slurs or derogatory remarks about homosexuality? My point is, they would be warned and/or fired..but the company can sell the hate..does that make any sense? Talk about assanine logic
Well it’s probably a non-issue since so many in the recording industry are gay I suspect. It may easily not come up. With regard to ‘racial slurs’ Michael Richards it the latest casuality.
And no. It makes no sense.
Much as one has to respect the Firt Amendment it falls somewhere short (IMO) of negative homophobic lyrics in hip hop and rap or the rantings of a Fred Phelps be he at the funeral of a gay person or a military lost in war-related casuality.
Much as I’m a proponent of Free Speech I think (as in all things) reason must prevail. There’s a very fine interpretive line here peejz.
re #20 Ted-
I still think saying publically “I’m pissed” is déclassé so… different things offend different ears.
re #21 Zelda-
I think ‘nigger’ needs to be used by more people not less. It would take away the importance of the word and leave us to deal with any real issues that remain.
Categorically disagree. The word’s too racially charged to be used.
By your logic Zelda we’d all better say what we will, arm ourselves, batten down the hatches and take to our respective sides of the streets.
No matter who the target/focus group of the moment society will forever need someone to perceive as somehow lesser by genetics, religious association and social background.
It’s a pecking order thing.
You can’t ban a word.
#20 sorry missed this before Ted:
The goal is never to eliminate the prejudice itself, but to be concerned with the perception of such prejudice.
I guess this is where our points of view part company.
Political correctness is a term I think of more in the light of “social correctness”. I realize that the phrase has been given a negative spin by those who want to continue to let racially and socially negative and ambiguous adjectives and nouns remain in popular usage to give our culture and “us and them” designation. It’s just easier I guess not to be careful of what you say and many remain resistent to positive change.
But the disuse of “nigger” and the slow lessening of “faggot” in the common vernacular can only – IMO – help to diminish the use of these nasty words to connote anything acceptable since they’re always used in a negative sense by those who aren’t those things.
I also dislike the word “gay” morphing into something to mean “lame”. Homosexuals generally need a word to describe them which has no hetero-imposed negative connotation like “gay” and those who resent the meaning of the word no longer being “carefree and happy” as it once meant can simply adjust.
The culture changes (ideally in a positive sense) and so does the verbiage.
I have no trouble hot calling a Jew a “heeb”, a black person a “nigger”, a Chinese person a “chink”, or a gay one a “fag”. It’s just not too difficult for me to accomplish.
If that’s political correctness I’m all for it.
# 24
You can’t ban a word.
No you can’t… not by decree. But you can ban one personally.
#20 sorry missed this before Ted:
The goal is never to eliminate the prejudice itself, but to be concerned with the perception of such prejudice.
I guess this is where our points of view part company.
Political correctness is a term I think of more in the light of “social correctness”. I realize that the phrase has been given a negative spin by those who want to continue to let racially and socially negative and ambiguous adjectives and nouns remain in popular usage to give our culture and “us and them” designation. It’s just easier I guess not to be careful of what you say and many remain resistent to positive change.
But the disuse of “nigger” and the slow lessening of “faggot” in the common vernacular can only – IMO – help to diminish the use of these nasty words to connote anything acceptable since they’re always used in a negative sense by those who aren’t those things.
I also dislike the word “gay” morphing into something to mean “lame”. Homosexuals generally need a word to describe them which has no hetero-imposed negative connotation like “gay” and those who resent the meaning of the word no longer being “carefree and happy” as it once meant can simply adjust.
The culture changes (ideally in a positive sense) and so does the verbiage.
I have no trouble hot calling a Jew a “heeb”, a black person a “nigger”, a Chinese person a “chink”, or a gay one a “fag”. It’s just not too difficult for me to accomplish.
If that’s political correctness I’m all for it.
# 24
You can’t ban a word.
No you can’t… not by decree. But you can ban one personally.
“Nigger” as a word is never ever going away. Attempts to ban it will only make it more powerful to fringe groups and people who will use it for harm.
#2
No one that I know of wants to ‘ban’ anything Zelda.
It’s called discretion. If we all call on that piece of ourselves that realizes that “words have power” (both positive and negative) there can be no doubt personal change can dictate the eventual archaic designation of that word and “faggot”.