My father received the Silver Star, three Purple Hearts and varius other citations during his service in Korea. He sees that any member who serves and does so honorably is deserving our appreciation, no matter what level they served at. Battle experience is irelevant, as an active member of the VFW for over 50 years, he was ashamed of the organization for not initially accepting Viet Nam Vets. All vets, no matter their level of service, should be appreciated as long as said service was honorable. This includes John Kerry and George Bush.

However, when the ‘04 Presidential elections was going on, I directly spoke with over 100 veterns regarding Kerry and his actions after the war. Without a singlr exception, those veterns considered Mr. Kerry’s service as honorable. However, the rub is in his actions after the service. All of those men consider his actions as traitorous. They truely felt that he misrepresented the other soldier serving and that his trip to Paris in the Summer of 1971 to meet with representatives from North Viet Nam was indeed treasonous, but no charges were made because he was politically protected.

That’s not the post you were referencing but I’ll play:

Actualy it was. If you refer to my post 14, I directly quoted you:

“Does George Walker Bush qualify for “Hanoi Jane”status for getting our collective arses in a sling by lying to his countrymen and going to war against Iraq:

(my response)

“Please provide proof of this assertion, that Bush lied to go to war in Iraq. This is a claim I see frequently made, but never substantiated.”

And now, to your response in the previous post:

“Deceiving an angry and blood thirsty American public immediately post-9/11 by manipulating reality to find a scapegoat in Saddam Hussein (his daddy’s old nemesis) was pretty darned deceitful.

Was it a lie? Yes. I’d say it was.”

This does not in any way provide proof or evidence that bush lied about said topic. Yours is a subjective response that in no way supports the assertion.

I will ask you once again to provide irrefutable proof, and not subjective conjecture that you have thus far. “What you say” is irrelevant. What is relevant is the facts. Please provide them.

This does get back to whether you like his service or not.

Kerry was villified for embellishing the truth..

Let me say this;

Deceiving an angry and blood thirsty American public immediately post-9/11 by manipulating reality to find a scapegoat in Saddam Hussein (his daddy’s old nemesis) was pretty darned deceitful.

Why is this point lost on so many?

Was it a lie? Yes. I’d say it was.

#24- Peejz.

Whether you like it or not, he served. And do you not understand what the Air National Guard is? What branch they are under?

It’s not a matter of ‘liking ‘ it or not. It’s a matter of what he didn’t do for his country. Kerry did and had the right, since he earned it to address the ills of the War in Vietnam. For this he’s villified when it’s his moral duty to civilly disagree with his government when his conscience tells him to?

Come on… this isn’t rocket science.

So all the cadets at West Point “served” while in their classrooms but it hardly holds up to seeing battle now does it?:wink:

Actually, you did.

Post 6.: “Does George Walker Bush qualify for “Hanoi Jane”status for getting our collective arses in a sling by lying to his countrymen and going to war against Iraq under “false intelligence”??”

(emphasis added)

Now, I will ask you again: Please provide proof of this assertion, that Bush lied to go to war in Iraq.

It is time to put up or shut up on this Eben: either back peddle on the claim or provide proof to support it.

Peejz-

He served in the National Guard. The AIR National Guard. And he served nothing but his own ends.

#14Please provide proof of this assertion, that Bush lied to go to war in Iraq. This is a claim I see frequently made, but never substantiated.

If you reread my post Ted I think you’ll find I never used the word ‘lied’.

Do I think he “jumped the gun”, confused the War on Terrorism with the War on Iraq, chose to believe dubious intelligence? Oh yeah.

And I’ve already linked to my assertions. You start.

When I link the links are called biased.

Even when the proof is right there in front of you guys you choose to believe what suits you. I’m not about to change your inablity to think with any form of detachment. I’m simply stating my beliefs and to date everyone on the thread seems pretty damned glad I’m here to ruffle their feathers!

Oh well… it’s a slow weekend.:wink:

Actually Kerry the Fairy has lots of friends in Iraq, but they were all busy planting bombs, blowing up children and trying to kill those American fighting men and womwn that prissy Johnnyboy hates so much.

just let me say?

Do you mean ‘Kerry the Fairy’ as in “mischievous sprite” or as in homosexual?

Honest, I dont’ think the dude’s gay. Is anyone who doens’t subscribe to blind patriotism and right-wing rhetoric a homosexual to you?

The Log Cabin Republicans will be aghast!:lol:

Gee Eben, Kerry finally released his records. It only took him something like 3 years.

Hmmm. But you said in a previous post he hadn’t? Odd.

Anyhow. The logic behind Kerry’s refusal to embrace the witch hunt initiated by Bush & Co. to refute his war record was that no one with any decency would stoop so low. Senator Kerry, taking what used to be called the high road and refused to respond on principle assuming the American public would know b.s. when they saw it.

Unfortunately the good Senator was mistaken in his confidence in American human decency.

BTW Eben, I don’t have to try and discredit people who disagree with me politically. I just take their arguments to a logical conclusion.

Nothing ‘logical’ about claiming falsities. It’s just plain misleading and erroneous.

As for me being a dolt. Well, I did leave high school a year early. Of course I left to attend college on an academic scholarship. I was in the top third of my class despite studying Russian, and taking as many as three upper level political science classes at a time, as a sophomore. I even made the Dean’s List while working two part time jobs and working for the ROTC department. Had I had a good advisor, I probably would’ve gone to a couple of summer or winter sessions and graduated with two majors and two minors in the same four years. I only needed 2 classes to graduate with majors in Political Science and Russian as well as minors in History and Public Administration. As it was, I had a choice as to which minor to graduate with. Russian, History, or Public Adminstration. Because I only had one declared major, I could only have one minor. The two classes I needed for the Russian major were modern linguistic courses. I’ve also gotten awards from every company that I have managed stores for, including monthly awards for being the top store manager in the company for two of them.

I wasn’t specifically calling you a ‘dolt’. But I’m awfully glad to have your short form bio handy for easy reference.:shock:

numbers 17 and 18

As Ted points out, wiki articles are written by individuals. There is no non-partisan, unbiased oversight process for these articles.

Then you must be suggesting there is no absolute truth.

I do declare you’d not believe it was Jesus were he actually to make a Second Coming if he professed peace (as He was like to do) rather than war.

Pity that.