If you are Richard Cohen, you believe this!
Was Iraq so “broken” we never could have fixed it? Was Hussein’s despotism an avoidable tragedy, or was it, instead, a tragic necessity? I wonder about all these things. I tend to think now we never could have made it work.
I tend to think that most people are under the false impression that a free, capitalistic democracy in Iraq is supposed to look exactly like ours, but it won’t. It will be bound by their laws, and run by their leaders. This arguement that Cohen makes is just as ignorant as the one that is attempted to be made by the left with regards to the Middle East. People keep saying that the administration is destablizing the region…..Have these people been in a coma? Could any of you list a sustained period of peace in the Middle East during your life time? I don’t think so. This is 2007, and people don’t need to live under a dictatorship.Â
I wonder if Cohen gave any thought to the fact that he thinks nothing of people living under a dictatorship, while he types on his Blackberry as he is sitting in a coffee shop, complaining about the fact that the new iPhone is set up for personal and not professional use!Â
Here is how Cohen sees it:
America is still America — and we still don’t know what in the world we’re doing.
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I don’t think that people there need a dictator (although the middle-eastern culture especially in the private area support much tougher hierarchical social structures than in the western countries), but on Iraq the western world can see the same sick heritage of its colonial ignorance as in the rest of the third world (just see all the African banana republics). The Europeans went everywhere in the world made frontiers on a map with a ruler and gave a shit about ethnical groups…
The most sane way would be to allow Iraq to split into the areas with the different local majorities instead of promoting the idea to keep parts together in one state that obviously don’t want to belong together! Former Yugoslavia shows that there may be a solution… and current Israel/Palestine proves that there may be “terror without a end”.
Mattias, if you listen to the demands of Al Qaeda, they want a religious dictatorship. They want all infidels killed world-wide.
Palestinians aren’t wanted by other Arab countries, but they make nice pawns for them in their dislike for Israel.
Mattias, do you spend as much time on Wahabist websites telling them to stop the killing as you do here?
High UN officials indicted fof bribery in the UN Oil-For-Food scandal
This is another reason we don’t need middle east dictators, or UN dictators for that matter.
2- PCD, I give a shit about what Al Quaeda wants in Iraq or wherever. There is more than one group of interests in Iraq and if the US goverment only supports one side, you don’t have to wonder if the others do things their way. As the executions of Saddam and the others have proved: the official government in Iraq isn’t much more civilized than most of the terrorists!
And besides, what is a religious dictatorship? Is it when in the middle west’s public schools teach their children bullshit on the evolution or bavarian judges who prohibit the wearing of the veil despite the freedom of religion in my country?? What about your president’s mentioning of “God to bless America or Americans” when making you hot for the war..???
No, I don’t spend time on Wahabist websites because:
a) I probably already produced enough attention from your fascist secret services by my statments on THIS site…
b) I don’t speak Arabian nor Persian and other than you people wouln’t not only want but even could not understand what I mean.
c) When I had the opportunity to talk to (mostly) muslim people/friends, who have a far more extreme (but not violent) attitude towards your government and also sth. that is close to anti-semitism, I actually speak against it. There is no black and white scenario in this world- only ignorance and people who don’t have their little inner asshole under control! It’s got nothing to do with race, religion or nationality!
3- “..we don’t need middle east dictators, or UN dictators for that matter.”
“..we do whatever we want, whereever [outside US borders] we want! We give a shit about civilian casualties!”
Mattias, You are sure intouch with your inner asshole. Thanks for admitting that you don’t dish your crap out to the international killers who happen to be Muslim.
I think we’ve had enough of your one sided sanctimony.
Euro-Trash… coming from you,,,”moot chakaram”. Thats farsi asshole. Look it up. Turn down the techno and realize that these people that you apparently sooo love want to kill you and your way of live. Bunch of jealous pricks. They are just jealous because they live shitty lives in their shitty country. Look at Kuwait. They are all happy and have no problem with us. Why…. they are rich. They violence is fuled in Iraq with money from forigen countries and their liberal “silent supporters”. Yes,,, silent supporters. They secretly hope we loose,,, just like you do.
“As the executions of Saddam and the others have proved: the official government in Iraq isn’t much more civilized than most of the terrorists!”
How does his execuation of Saddam prove your assertion?
And besides, what is a religious dictatorship?
It is a the absolute rule or control of a nation or government by a single person, usually through ruthless means.
Is it when in the middle west’s public schools teach their children bullshit on the evolution or bavarian judges who prohibit the wearing of the veil despite the freedom of religion in my country??
No, it isn’t.
“..we do whatever we want, whereever [outside US borders] we want! We give a shit about civilian casualties!â€
None of that is true.
TedintheShed;
“Z, a more accurate way to look at it may be that those two major companies on the island are probably major contributors to her campaigns.â€
Come on… I know that.
You and I aren’t so different politically.
I want the best for America and I really think that the Democrats and the Republicans as groups have lost touch with reality; and frankly it hurts all of us.
I too am so concerned about the loss of inocent lives I am thinking maybe Saddam was better. This war is ridiculous, it is out of control!
Never too late to surrender! I can get used to Islam and Sharia law. I think women in Burqas are HOT!
Super Lib;
You’re wrong. Saddam was a bad man. We will kill as many Iraqi’s as it takes to help them.
The deaths of Saddam and 3000 American troops have made America safer because Saddam is dead. If Saddam was still alive and we hadn’t invaded how many Americans do you think he would have killed by now?
This war makes us safer unless we fail. Unfortunately President Bush has virtually guarantied failure. It’s sad that you guys can’t see that possibility. It’s why the Democrats are going to win big in 2008.
#7 Euro-Trash: coming from you,,,â€moot chakaramâ€. Thats farsi asshole. Look it up. Turn down the techno and realize that these people that you apparently sooo love want to kill you and your way of live. Bunch of jealous pricks. They are just jealous because they live shitty lives in their shitty country. Look at Kuwait.
This may be (I said may be) the single most audaciously arrogant and erroneous conclusion I’ve ever read on this site?
President Bush?
Your bullshit has an audience.
11-Unfortunately President Bush has virtually guarantied failureIt’s easy to make a statement like this but as usual, you don’t back it up.
It’s why the Democrats are going to win big in 2008 What does the election have to do with it? Are you saying that only those that will not use the military except for a dog and pony show, are guaranteed to win?
“11-Unfortunately President Bush has virtually guarantied failure. It’s easy to make a statement like this but as usual, you don’t back it up.â€
It’s not my job to back it up. It’s President Bush’s job to make my statement false in the first place. If you guys were remotely realistic I think you would understand.
“It’s why the Democrats are going to win big in 2008. What does the election have to do with it?”
The Republicans are stuck on stupid.
My point is that this war has been and will be bad for America. The war in Iraq doesn’t care about slogans and promises. I think the people who still think the war in Iraq has been or will be good for America are “dead-endersâ€. (I hope I’m wrong though) It will be a big issue in 2008.
“Are you saying that only those that will not use the military except for a dog and pony show, are guaranteed to win? ”
What kind of retarded question is that? My god! Those who use the military for a preemptive strike better know what the hell they are doing in the first place. They had better be smart. Unfortunately the preemptive strike on Iraq was not smart. By failing to see it the Republican Party is ensuring the future success of the Democrats.
Re #9, Zelda:
“Come on: I know that.
You and I aren’t so different politically.”
Probably not.
“I want the best for America and I really think that the Democrats and the Republicans as groups have lost touch with reality; and frankly it hurts all of us.”
Well, in a way this kind of proves it, but also may demonstrate a glarinbg difference. I don’t think they’ve lost touch with reality at all as they are manipulating the reality to suit their goals, but more specificlly no longer have the best for America or her citizens in mind. It’s a power game. They take advantage of the natural complacency of the human race, and Americans specifically. As time goes by, they are resting power from the people. It is true that we still have the power, but it is also true that the aforementioned complacency maintains and even stregthens the status quo.
re 11, Zelda:
This war makes us safer unless we fail.
This is a reality that many on the left doesn’t see.
Unfortunately President Bush has virtually guarantied failure. It’s sad that you guys can’t see that possibility.
This is a reality that many on the right doesn’t see.
“It’s why the Democrats are going to win big in 2008.”
That is up in the air.
That said, I want to point out that the first two statements one of the HUGE difference between the two bickering side. If the Democrats would work more toward victory in Iraq instead of victory in the domestic political arena then we’d be better off. Unfortunately for them, they want the war in Iraq to fail, because if it does it means victory politically for them. One the other hand, the Republicans care more about victory in the political domestic arena also, so they will do little to change course in iraq until things look so dismal that they are forced to. Bush’s post invasion strategy was a failure and it seems most folks knew this a year ago, but the were the “political dder caugght in the headlights” and would do nothing about it.
8-” “..we do whatever we want, whereever [outside US borders] we want! We give a shit about civilian casualties!â€
None of that is true. “
Okay… I take that back- you do give a shit about the civilian casualties in Iraq… the world can see it with your “desparation parades”, that you have in your country each quarter for an equivalent figure to 9/11-victims of people who died in that timeframe…
You really care- at least as it makes the approval percentage of your president drop a little bit… that is something to feel sorry for…
17, Mattias, stop thinking with your kiester. If we were as calous as you state, WHY haven’t we nuked Syria, Iraq, and Iran long ago? Then nuked any dissenters to our actions? That is what the mad man in charge of Iran would do after nuking Israel and killing a lot of Palestinians and Jordanians along with them.
If you really thought things out you wouldn’t look so stupid. Also, go to the english sites supporting Wahabisn and peddle your stupidity thare. Bet the call you an apostate and get a fatwa issued to kill you.
17-Okay: I take that back- you do give a shit about the civilian casualties in Iraq: the world can see it with your “desparation paradesâ€, that you have in your country each quarter for an equivalent figure to 9/11-victims of people who died in that timeframe:
You really care- at least as it makes the approval percentage of your president drop a little bit: that is something to feel sorry for
What parades are you talking about? I am guessing you have no idea. What I am reading from this is that the civilian casualty rate in Iraq can be equal to but not more than that of the figure we sustained on 9/11..? Is that what you are saying?
What does the approval rating of the President have to do with anything? Had you paid attention, and I mean really paid attention, you would see that his approval rating has not stopped him from making the decisions he has, it has not stopped the legislation he has asked for..In reality, it means nothing…
18 -“If we were as calous as you state, WHY haven’t we nuked Syria, Iraq, and Iran long ago?”
I will propose you to get the Nobel Peace Prize…
18- “Also, go to the english sites supporting Wahabisn and peddle your stupidity thare. Bet the call you an apostate and get a fatwa issued to kill you.”
The Americans are my friends and my country’s allies. Before I go and tell my enemies what they do wrong (that’s why they are my enemies!), I try to put some order in my own neighbourhood!! How am I supposed to tell uncivilized “other” people about how to behave if my own people don’t behave properly???
19 -“What I am reading from this is that the civilian casualty rate in Iraq can be equal to but not more than that of the figure we sustained on 9/11..? Is that what you are saying?”
What I was trying to say was, that the only reason for the American public to turn against the Iraq war is their own losses of (figure/comparewise) “ridiculous” 3,000 US-victims in the war while not caring about the 30,000 civilians that were killed in Iraq only last year!!! What kind of people are you?! Is one American Soldier’s (who chose to fight) life more worth than the life of ten Iraqui civilians???
19-“Had you paid attention, and I mean really paid attention, you would see that his approval rating has not stopped him from making the decisions he has, it has not stopped the legislation he has asked for..”
Hey, wait a minute… I thought you were militating in favor of your president…
20- The approval rating you refer to is a survey of approximately 900 people which doesn’t even register on a %age scale, so therefore, I find the entire rating system to be assinine. Only certain people have turned against the war…And again, you don’t comprehend what is going on…his low approval rating has not stopped him from getting his job done. The right decisions are not always the popular decisions.
Peejz,
but if somebody does not even listen/follow the recommendations on how to decide of a committee whose only purpose and expertise is to find the right strategy… would you still trust the decision that does not follow this recommendation to be the “right decision”???
Besides, the popularity of somebody is tied to the success of his decisions. If his popularity has dropped, there must have been something done or decided the wrong way… right?
“his low approval rating has not stopped him from getting his job done.”
If he had…!!!
22- If you aqre referring to the Iraq Study Group, Bush made the right decision. They were but one body giving advise and they were not experts on the situation either. The analogy is totally flawed in that you assume the reccomendations to be the right ones
the popularity of somebody is tied to the success of his decisions What? The popularity of someone may determine the popularity of the decision, but it in no way determines the success of a decision.
Example: Had Truman announced he was going to drop those bombs, I would bet support would have been nil and his decision would have been unpopular…it is in hindsight, that we see it was the right decision!
23- “they were not experts on the situation either.”
“Okay: I take that back- you do give a shit about the civilian casualties in Iraq: the world can see it with your “desparation paradesâ€, that you have in your country each quarter for an equivalent figure to 9/11-victims of people who died in that timeframe:”
Want to repeat this in English? What’s a “desparation parade”? What parage is held every quarter?
You really care- at least as it makes the approval percentage of your president drop a little bit: that is something to feel sorry for:
Yes, we care. It is one reason why we are over there.
But I’ll tell you what Matthias, if you want to play the stereotype/prejudice game, I’m all for it.
Coming from a German, the country of men who are single-handedly responsible for more deaths (civilain or other wise) than any other nation on the face of the earth over the past 100 years…this is rich.
So now, shut the fuck up and sit your ass down and know that you’ve been owned.
25- “Want to repeat this in English? What’s a “desparation paradeâ€? What parage is held every quarter?”
That was actually something called sarcasm because in your country actually NOBODY goes out on the street and protests for the thousands of civilian people that die every day in Iraq because your idiot of president destabilized the country with his stupid little war!
With “desparation parade” I refer kind of protest/shock the world showed when on 9/11 a number people senselessly died, while this number of people are dying probably every two months!!! AND NOBODY IN YOUR COUNTRY WHO SUPPORTED THIS MADNESS CARES!
Mattias, listen to the Beatles’ “Nowhere Man”. They are singing about YOU!
.26… Oh my God! We are being lectured about war and right and wrong by a german!!!!! I am laughing my ass off.
The Beatles are “nice” but in my wild times I rather preferred Rage against the Machine stuff like “Know your enemy”… You may like it, PCD- they sang about “All of which are American dreams”
28- so what’s the problem? Am I as a German too appeasing or too warmongering???
I’ve seen both allegations: one time I was a Commie- other time I was a Nazi! What do you tend to?
29, Mattias, go to your Imam and tell him all your blather and that he should do more. I’d like to hear the result.
PCD,
a Imam in Germany (most of them are from Arabia or Turkeye) would really care a lot about muslim people killing eachother in a country that has as much to do with his own as America with Norway…
I could also ask him if he couldn’t stop the chinese from eating dogs or the trees from being lazy…
Mattias,
The Chinese do not eat Dog. It is some Koreans who do that.
I like the way you preach to the US, but refuse to preach to other killers or supporters of killers.
My niece has a nice Turkish Mauser. You know it comes with a 2″ steel buttplate. You know what that is for. For civvies that don’t know. The built up buttplate is for smashing in faces and skulls. This is what was issued to Turkish troops. They have more modern arms now.
.30 I never called you a Nazi. I said that you and your ilk pander recycled communism. Try to read the post and not my mind.