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	<title>Comments on: Utah Supreme Court Overturns Decision That Granted Parental Rights to Lesbian Non-parent</title>
	<atom:link href="http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/</link>
	<description>in all matter of opinion, our adversaries are insane.</description>
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		<title>By: Peejz</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/comment-page-1/#comment-331273</link>
		<dc:creator>Peejz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 16:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/#comment-331273</guid>
		<description>9-&lt;em&gt;However it is morally the wrong decision.&lt;/em&gt; Depending on ones morals.  

Are social workers more objective in general? Nope, they tend to be agenda driven. 

I agree with you that the judgement seems legally sound.  My point on the VT civil unions, not marriage (my mistake), is that a couple can not go there, enter into a union, and expect another state to honor it.  We have now seen the outcome of this case, and as soon as I see a ruling, I will post about Janet Miller-Jenkins v. Lisa Miller-Jenkins.  Exact same circumstances, just a different state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>9-<em>However it is morally the wrong decision.</em> Depending on ones morals.  </p>
<p>Are social workers more objective in general? Nope, they tend to be agenda driven. </p>
<p>I agree with you that the judgement seems legally sound.  My point on the VT civil unions, not marriage (my mistake), is that a couple can not go there, enter into a union, and expect another state to honor it.  We have now seen the outcome of this case, and as soon as I see a ruling, I will post about Janet Miller-Jenkins v. Lisa Miller-Jenkins.  Exact same circumstances, just a different state.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/comment-page-1/#comment-331192</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/#comment-331192</guid>
		<description>1. Vermont is a state that allows civil unions, not marriage.

2. I want to be clear that the opinion appears to be legally sound. However it is morally the wrong decision.

3. As for social workers being poor evaluators, at least they are more objective than Jones and Barlow were. And the uniformity of their opinions does add validity.

4. I am not a stranger to the situation. Without going into detail, it should be clear by my corrections to erroneous statements that I am not just depending on press releases to form my opinions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. Vermont is a state that allows civil unions, not marriage.</p>
<p>2. I want to be clear that the opinion appears to be legally sound. However it is morally the wrong decision.</p>
<p>3. As for social workers being poor evaluators, at least they are more objective than Jones and Barlow were. And the uniformity of their opinions does add validity.</p>
<p>4. I am not a stranger to the situation. Without going into detail, it should be clear by my corrections to erroneous statements that I am not just depending on press releases to form my opinions.</p>
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		<title>By: AKD</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/comment-page-1/#comment-330494</link>
		<dc:creator>AKD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/#comment-330494</guid>
		<description>Actually, we may have to stay tuned indefinitely.  Peejz hasn&#039;t been doing too well defending herself as of late (see the evolution/ID thread).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, we may have to stay tuned indefinitely.  Peejz hasn&#8217;t been doing too well defending herself as of late (see the evolution/ID thread).</p>
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		<title>By: AKD</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/comment-page-1/#comment-330380</link>
		<dc:creator>AKD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 18:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/#comment-330380</guid>
		<description>3.&lt;em&gt;Gays and lesbians can never be good parents like a streight person can&lt;/em&gt;

Will Peejz attack snowy as a bigot?  Or will her hypocrisy persist?  Stay tuned...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3.<em>Gays and lesbians can never be good parents like a streight person can</em></p>
<p>Will Peejz attack snowy as a bigot?  Or will her hypocrisy persist?  Stay tuned&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: PCD</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/comment-page-1/#comment-330336</link>
		<dc:creator>PCD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/#comment-330336</guid>
		<description>4, how can a gay stranger like you, Joseph claim superior knowledge?  Is is because a ruling for the non-biological gay is in your personal interest?

I went to a college that turns out Social Workers.  On the whole I&#039;m not impressed because the professors were biased bigots or were otherwise clinically speaking, nuts.

The only good social workers I&#039;ve met have a good, stable heterosexual home life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4, how can a gay stranger like you, Joseph claim superior knowledge?  Is is because a ruling for the non-biological gay is in your personal interest?</p>
<p>I went to a college that turns out Social Workers.  On the whole I&#8217;m not impressed because the professors were biased bigots or were otherwise clinically speaking, nuts.</p>
<p>The only good social workers I&#8217;ve met have a good, stable heterosexual home life.</p>
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		<title>By: Peejz</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/comment-page-1/#comment-330306</link>
		<dc:creator>Peejz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/#comment-330306</guid>
		<description>1- Vermont is a state that allows gays to be married, but a gay couple from Utah, or any other state, can not go there and get married, return home and then expect the court to recognize a marriage performed in VT.  Nothing flawed about it.  Utah doesn&#039;t recognize gay marriage.  

Stop The ACLU never faulted them for not getting married in a state where they could.

In the eyes of the law, Barlow is the birth mother, period.  It goes back to the Roe V Wade.  A woman&#039;s body, a womens right to choose, and the partner is not deemed a contributing factor unless money is the issue.  If money is the issue, the partner will pay based on what the courts deem reasonable support for the child.  How prevelant is it to see a father gain primary custody?

Joseph, I don&#039;t put a lot of faith in social workers.  Remember, these are the same people that don&#039;t follow up on the child abuse cases and the kid ends up dead.  (That is just my feeling on social workers).  That aside, I wasn&#039;t kidding about RvW.  I am not talking about the abortion issue, but the ramifications of how the laws were written, with regards to the partner,  after that decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1- Vermont is a state that allows gays to be married, but a gay couple from Utah, or any other state, can not go there and get married, return home and then expect the court to recognize a marriage performed in VT.  Nothing flawed about it.  Utah doesn&#8217;t recognize gay marriage.  </p>
<p>Stop The ACLU never faulted them for not getting married in a state where they could.</p>
<p>In the eyes of the law, Barlow is the birth mother, period.  It goes back to the Roe V Wade.  A woman&#8217;s body, a womens right to choose, and the partner is not deemed a contributing factor unless money is the issue.  If money is the issue, the partner will pay based on what the courts deem reasonable support for the child.  How prevelant is it to see a father gain primary custody?</p>
<p>Joseph, I don&#8217;t put a lot of faith in social workers.  Remember, these are the same people that don&#8217;t follow up on the child abuse cases and the kid ends up dead.  (That is just my feeling on social workers).  That aside, I wasn&#8217;t kidding about RvW.  I am not talking about the abortion issue, but the ramifications of how the laws were written, with regards to the partner,  after that decision.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/comment-page-1/#comment-330298</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/#comment-330298</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t claim the deviant status, that&#039;s something you throw on me without knowing me. As for rendering children dysfunctional and not being &quot;good parents like a streight person,&quot; if you took the time to actually follow this case you would see that every single guardien ad litem and social worker assigned to the case stated it would be in the best interests for the girl to have visitation with Jones. If court appointed guardians, social workers, and attorneys can all agree on what&#039;s in the child&#039;s best interests, how can a stranger like you claim superior knowledge?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t claim the deviant status, that&#8217;s something you throw on me without knowing me. As for rendering children dysfunctional and not being &#8220;good parents like a streight person,&#8221; if you took the time to actually follow this case you would see that every single guardien ad litem and social worker assigned to the case stated it would be in the best interests for the girl to have visitation with Jones. If court appointed guardians, social workers, and attorneys can all agree on what&#8217;s in the child&#8217;s best interests, how can a stranger like you claim superior knowledge?</p>
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		<title>By: snowy egret</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/comment-page-1/#comment-330287</link>
		<dc:creator>snowy egret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/#comment-330287</guid>
		<description>Gays and lesbians can never be good parents like a streight person can:grin:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gays and lesbians can never be good parents like a streight person can:grin:</p>
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		<title>By: PCD</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/comment-page-1/#comment-330194</link>
		<dc:creator>PCD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 11:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/#comment-330194</guid>
		<description>Ah, the we homosexuals, deviants though we may be, are jsut the same as everyone else, no matter how many children we render dysfunctional in our political fights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, the we homosexuals, deviants though we may be, are jsut the same as everyone else, no matter how many children we render dysfunctional in our political fights.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/comment-page-1/#comment-329953</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 04:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/02/19/utah-supreme-court-overturns-decision-that-granted-parental-rights-to-lesbian-non-parent/#comment-329953</guid>
		<description>Your &quot;logic&quot; is severely flawed on several levels. First, you fault the couple for getting married in Vermont. The two main problems with this approach are that there is no marriage equality in Vermont and that the other site your quote, Stop the ACLU actually faults them for NOT getting married in a state where they could.

Your second argument, comparing Keri Jones to a daycare worker, is a poor analogy. Not many daycare workers work with a biological mother to find a sperm donor that shares the characteristics of both the biomom and the daycare worker. Daycare workers usually receive pay for their nose wiping services. Instead of being paid, Jones spent thousands to bring that little girl into the world and thousands more to be able to visit the girl.

If Jones had been fighting for custody or guardianship, I might be more inclined to agree with you. But for a fit mother to be denied visitation because the other person who decided to bring the girl into the world was the biomom is not a success for any campaign. The voices of the right think that by denying marriage and limiting adoption to these families, that they will somehow cease to exist. Instead, they continue but are more vulnerable because strangers disapprove.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your &#8220;logic&#8221; is severely flawed on several levels. First, you fault the couple for getting married in Vermont. The two main problems with this approach are that there is no marriage equality in Vermont and that the other site your quote, Stop the ACLU actually faults them for NOT getting married in a state where they could.</p>
<p>Your second argument, comparing Keri Jones to a daycare worker, is a poor analogy. Not many daycare workers work with a biological mother to find a sperm donor that shares the characteristics of both the biomom and the daycare worker. Daycare workers usually receive pay for their nose wiping services. Instead of being paid, Jones spent thousands to bring that little girl into the world and thousands more to be able to visit the girl.</p>
<p>If Jones had been fighting for custody or guardianship, I might be more inclined to agree with you. But for a fit mother to be denied visitation because the other person who decided to bring the girl into the world was the biomom is not a success for any campaign. The voices of the right think that by denying marriage and limiting adoption to these families, that they will somehow cease to exist. Instead, they continue but are more vulnerable because strangers disapprove.</p>
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