Court ruling may put executions on indefinite hold?
Bryan linked to the crime committed by Heliberto Chi . Chi is at the center of the latest attempt to take the death penalty off the books, as he is suing on the basis that the death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment:
In 2001, Armand Paliotta was working at the K&G Men’s Superstore in southwest Arlington. Chi had worked at the store as an assistant tailor, but had been fired, former employees said.
The young man stopped by the store twice on March 24, according to court documents. During his first visit, he chatted with some of the employees, stayed about 30 minutes, then left.
He returned as Paliotta and two other employees were ready to leave for the night. Chi told them that he was missing his wallet, which he might have left in the store when he had stopped by earlier, said Adrian Riojas, who had started working at the store seven months earlier.
Paliotta let him inside to look.
Chi went to the back of the store, then returned and asked whether he could stay to search for it, Riojas said. Paliotta he would have to come back the next day, Riojas said.
Chi then pulled out a handgun and told the employees to get back inside the store, Riojas said. As the three employees tried to escape, running in different directions, Chi shot Paliotta in the back. Then he found Riojas in the storeroom and shot him.
Chi couldn’t find the third employee, a woman, and left in a getaway car driven by Hugo Alejandro Sierra, who is serving a life sentence for his role in the killing.
At first, Riojas said he felt hot. He pulled off his blood-covered jacket and thought, “I don’t feel anything, how could I be shot?” He took off his shirt, touched the bullet wound and then ran to the phone to call 911. An operator was on the line; the female employee had already dialed.
The SCOTUS is refusing to hear the case, but through his lawyers, they are attempting to make an international incident out of this! How is that you ask?
Did I mention that Chi is a Honduran national ?
Jay: “This is the avenue to do away with all death sentences. It opens up a big can of worms, especially if it is successful. Is it time to go back to the firing squads?”
This won’t end the executions, but it will put them off for the short term.
October 3, 2007 - 06:57 PM on October 3rd, 2007
If Texas has a problem with executing foreign nationals, they can ship them across the state line to AZ. We don’t have a problem with it at all. Ask the two German nationals who murdered two armored car guards by putting them into canvas bags and dumping them bound and gagged into a lake. The German government bitched and whined but Hans and Franz still got the needle in the arm. Personally, I’m in favor of bringing back “Death by Hanging”. It’s relatively quick, relatively painless, and done properly the rope is reusable. There is a difference between “death by hanging” and “Hang by the neck until dead”. One results in the convict’s neck snapping and killing him almost instantly. The other has the convict hang there and slowly suffocate. That has taken as much as 19 minutes depending on the circumference of the convict’s neck. Of course if you have too much of a drop, the rope can snap the convict’s head completely off. While that is gruesome, it is pretty much proof positive that the individual is dead. For a quick death with little expense, a small caliber handgun fired into the skull from behind at the top of the spine would be the quickest, most humane and economical means of doing it. By severing the Modula Oblingata (sp?) or brain stem, all central nervous system functions would cease immediately. The convict would be dead before he hit the floor. There is a reason why that is the preferred target area when dealing with an armed hostile. Especially in a hostage scenario. The hostile doesn’t even twitch.
October 3, 2007 - 11:39 PM on October 3rd, 2007
These days, with the forensics and DNA analysis, the chances of an innocent person being executed are approaching zero. There are simply no remaining arguments against the DP.
Yet we still have these stupid Liberal games going on. How many times does the SC have to rule that it is Constitutional? How many times do voters have to approve it?
This is just another front in the Leftist war on traditional America.
October 4, 2007 - 06:00 AM on October 4th, 2007
1,2, Does Utah still have the civilian firing squad as an option for termination of a miscreant sentenced to death?
What the libs quickly lose sight of is that people convicted of a death penalty usually KILLED SOMEBODY. They gave the victim no appeal, no choice.
October 4, 2007 - 08:25 AM on October 4th, 2007
“Bryan linked to the crime committed by Armand Paliotta. Armand is at the center of the latest attempt to take the death penalty off the books, as he is suing on the basis that the death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment”
Huh?
From what I read in the linked article, Armand Paliotta was the victim and not the offender…
Or am I getting sth. wrong?
October 4, 2007 - 08:29 AM on October 4th, 2007
I corrected it, thanks!
October 4, 2007 - 08:32 AM on October 4th, 2007
1 “The German government bitched and whined but Hans and Franz still got the needle in the arm.”
As any other western government, mine tries to have its criminal citizens judged by its own laws and (in the best) case in its own courts. How many pathetic movies have I seen with Americans and Europeans being imprisoned in Turkey, Thailand, etc or trying to get their children back from their former foreign husband abroad.
I think, trying to punish your country’s scum your own way or trying to get assumed “own” justice on your citizens is not such an exotic thing to ask for…
October 4, 2007 - 08:49 AM on October 4th, 2007
If a crime is commiteed in a country by a foreign natitional, said country has a soveriegn right to apply their laws and due process towards that person. The law broken was theirs and was in their territory.
If not, then our Constitutional rights do not apply towards said foriegn nationals, as a point of consistancy.
October 4, 2007 - 09:25 AM on October 4th, 2007
6, if German citizens come to this country and kill, they deserve the death penalty. I only hope they get it in Utah. I’d volunteer for the firing squad and be sure to show them the Mauser rifle I’d be shooting them with.
October 4, 2007 - 10:55 AM on October 4th, 2007
“There are simply no remaining arguments against the DP”
——————
Ha! You wish.
The DP is disgusting, barbaric, cruel and inhumane – for starters.
Really though, it’s only a matter of time before it’s outlawed here in the US – I’d give it another 10 years or so before it’s gone.
Just about every other advanced/modern nation has abolished this stain on humanity…
…except China, North Korea, Iran and – The United States.
————————–
Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord.
October 4, 2007 - 10:56 AM on October 4th, 2007
PS…what happened to your Conservative Court?
LOL…not what you people expected, huh?
Just wait til President Clinton (44) appoints new liberal justices with a congresional majority standing behind her.
You guys are fucked.
October 4, 2007 - 11:25 AM on October 4th, 2007
9,10, SFL, stop posting after visiting your neighborhood canibis buying club.
Hillary will NEVER be President. A different donkey, but never Hillary.
October 4, 2007 - 01:36 PM on October 4th, 2007
Eating my comments again
October 4, 2007 - 01:37 PM on October 4th, 2007
I cut and pasted the exact same comment, and it says there is a duplicate comment detected
October 4, 2007 - 01:39 PM on October 4th, 2007
I altered the comment, addingb “tes, Test” at the end and it still ate it.
October 4, 2007 - 01:40 PM on October 4th, 2007
“Just wait til President Clinton (44) appoints new liberal justices with a congresional majority standing behind her.”
What conservative Justice do you see retiring during a four year Clinton Presideny? Roberts, Thomas and Alito are all too young. Scalia would turn 75-76, but would die before leaving. That leaves Kennedy, who is considered the swing vote in the SCOTUS. He is the same age as Scalia. That is the only way you would gain ground.
That said, with Reid predicted to lose thee Reopublicans would have enough to indefinately filibuster, similar to what the Democrats did to Bush.
October 4, 2007 - 01:40 PM on October 4th, 2007
I cut it in half- this is the second part that posted in 15. Must be something in the first part.
October 4, 2007 - 01:44 PM on October 4th, 2007
Test
Sentence #1:
The harder I look at it, the more I think SFL is right- that Hillary has a good chance to be the next President.
October 4, 2007 - 01:45 PM on October 4th, 2007
Test
Sentence #2:
That maybe a good thing though.
October 4, 2007 - 01:45 PM on October 4th, 2007
Test.
Sentece #3
Hillary is Jimmy Carter in a pants suit but a bit more bitchy.
October 4, 2007 - 01:49 PM on October 4th, 2007
Test
Sentence #5
But during the Carter years, we found a light at the end of the tunnel- Ronald Reagan.
October 4, 2007 - 01:49 PM on October 4th, 2007
Test
Sentence #6
Perhaps that suffering it would give us the same result.
October 4, 2007 - 01:52 PM on October 4th, 2007
Seems there is a glitch somewhere in the software. Every now and then my posts don’t appear. Seems quite random.
It is frustrating; I spend 4 or 5 hours doing research, formulating an opinion, then write a literary masterpiece of a post—only to have it go in and not appear..
October 4, 2007 - 01:53 PM on October 4th, 2007
Peezj,
I can send you senetence #4 if you like, which seem to be causing the error.
October 4, 2007 - 01:56 PM on October 4th, 2007
Then instead of having a carefully-researched, thoroughly-documented essay building the foundation, presenting the premise, and reaching a conclusion, I type “The DemokRats are the lowest scum in the political slime pool” and hit the ‘Submit Comment” button.
October 4, 2007 - 01:56 PM on October 4th, 2007
I’ve narrowed it down to a single word, I think
October 4, 2007 - 01:57 PM on October 4th, 2007
test:
Senetece #4
After dehabiliting the economy with high taxes and social programs (amounting to communism light) America would hit bottom like an alcoholic.
October 4, 2007 - 01:58 PM on October 4th, 2007
Yep- it is a single word. I replaced it with “Communism light” and also tried posting the word by itself.
October 4, 2007 - 02:08 PM on October 4th, 2007
10- The SCOTUS isn’t involved…this is Texas. Scotus refused to hear the case.
October 4, 2007 - 02:12 PM on October 4th, 2007
Ted-
I checked and your comments weren’t suspended for my approval, therefore, as Robert said, they got caught in a glitch somehow. Sometimes when it happens, they get thrown into moderation que, and I can approve them..that doesn’t happen as often as they get eaten up!
It happens to me too!
I’m sorry for the trouble.
October 4, 2007 - 02:31 PM on October 4th, 2007
No trouble- I was just trying to help you discover the specific error.
social-ism was the word if you were wondering.
October 4, 2007 - 02:33 PM on October 4th, 2007
Thanks for that
October 4, 2007 - 03:17 PM on October 4th, 2007
Ted, I’m folloing what you’re saying.
This place eats comments sometimes. I think we’ve all been through it…
————
To answer your question regarding the supreme court make-up under a Clinton (44) presidency, you’re right; the right-wing of the court is youngish.
But with a solid democratic executive and congressional majority, the current balance can be maintained, or even expanded with an unfortunate and/or untimely loss of the current swing vote.
That is to say, there won’t be any conservative justices getting on the court for the next presidental term or two.
And from my side of things, that’s good for labor, that’s good for reining in corporate abuses, and it’s good for civil rights…to name a few.
———————-
PCD…just watch, man.
H.Clinton is unstopable.
I wish Obama would get it, but I don’t think that’s possible now.
The Christian Right – you’re strongest card in your hand – just won’t come out for Guiliani.
Like Ted said, it might take another Clinton presidency before you see the rise of a strong Conservative Movement – rebuilt from the ashes of the current one.
October 5, 2007 - 04:46 AM on October 5th, 2007
8- Peejz,
I guess the circumstance that you don’t censor any longer PCD’s term of my person as “German piece of crap” (as you did [censoring] earlier on), officially allows me to talk of PCD as “American piece of crap”…
Right? Or is American freedom of speech only applied to Americans?
“I only hope they get it in Utah.”
This finally explains a lot, PCD!!! Or is “PCD” the pseudonym for Warren Jeff? Aren’t you busy enough torturing some of your various underaged wifes- do you have to bother me too?
October 5, 2007 - 04:54 AM on October 5th, 2007
As there is such a broad support in this forum for the death penalty (Surprise!
), I wonder if you would also support that kind of punishment for the scum that slaughtered the 14yo girl and its family in Iraq and the filthy Blackwater junk that went beserk in Iraq…
I mean, the message is “an eye for an eye”, right? It does not make any difference of the nationality… or does it?
October 5, 2007 - 05:13 AM on October 5th, 2007
34- That Blackwater employee has not been tried for a crime, let alone sentenced to death. It really isn’t a good example to use Matthias.
But if I am convicted of a crime in Germany, I am on my own. I am not under U.S. law as soon as I leave this country.
October 5, 2007 - 05:53 AM on October 5th, 2007
35- I think, it is a whole “platoon” (or whatever they call it at a private army) that shot several innocent civilians in the current case…
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely approve people being convicted under the laws of the country that they visit. If I was such an idiot to smuggle drugs in East-Asia, I’d have to take the risk of whatever they do with me…
…in Utah, I’d probably get crucified… or burned at the stake…
October 5, 2007 - 05:58 AM on October 5th, 2007
36- Yes you think it is, just as people thought those Marines were guilty of the haditha incident…look how that turned out.
As I said, the Blackwater case or any military case is not a good example to use.
Why would you be crucified in Utah?
October 5, 2007 - 06:12 AM on October 5th, 2007
37- “Why would you be crucified in Utah?”
Ask PCD…
He’d give you a million reasons.
October 5, 2007 - 06:26 AM on October 5th, 2007
38, Because Islamofascist friends would love to use him as a faked incident of American injustice. They’d crucify him and try to say the Americans did it.
October 5, 2007 - 06:29 AM on October 5th, 2007
32, SFL, Aren’t you scared that John Ashcroft won’t come out from under your bed and take you to Hell, MI?
You are so pervertedly blind. Just watch Bill and Hillary go to jail for financial crimes and lying about them. Remember both Libby and Martha Stewart. The die is cast and they are next.
October 5, 2007 - 11:54 PM on October 5th, 2007
There is one thing that no liberal wants to admit and that is that people who are executed never commit another crime. There is also the deterrent effect of people knowing that if their loose cannon friend kills someone during a crime, the only way that they avoid being executed is to come forward as soon as possible. We have one recidivist scum who was out of prison for less than 15 months after a 13 yr stretch who was just convicted of two rapes, and is awaiting trial on a number of other crimes including 8 or 9 murders. He was out on parole 7 years early despite kidnapping, repeatedly raping, and then beating an ex-girlfriend so badly with a shotgun that she sustained permanent brain damage. Considering the brutality of his initial offense, is there any reason why this man should’ve been allowed to breath again as a free man? There are dozens of Arizonans who have to ask what the state of California was thinking when they paroled him. I’m certain they ask that question whenever they visit the graves of their murdered friends and family members, or flinch in fear at the thought of walking out their front door, or into a parking lot at night.
October 5, 2007 - 11:57 PM on October 5th, 2007
If you haven’t guessed, I don’t really give a rodent’s backside about the health and welfare of convicted violent offenders, especially repeat offenders. A short rope and a long drop is a quick, economical, and permanent solution to whatever supposed mental issues that may ail them. All of their whining and pschological mumbo jumbo are nothing more than an excuses to try and gain approval for inexcusable behavior.
October 6, 2007 - 03:35 AM on October 6th, 2007
41,41 – FAO,
according to the case of this thread (Armand Paliotta & Heliberto Chi) it sounds like Chi was taking revenge for having been fired from that store. So regarding the main argument of death row supporters, there are such “bad” actions for which the committer deserves to be killed. I don’t get rid of the impression, that some twisted thought in Chi’s head went the same way…
“people who are executed never commit another crime”
The innocently executed won’t either…
“We have one recidivist scum who was out of prison for less than 15 months after a 13 yr stretch who was just convicted of two rapes, and is awaiting trial on a number of other crimes including 8 or 9 murders….Considering the brutality of his initial offense, is there any reason why this man should’ve been allowed to breath again as a free man?”
So exactly at which point would you execute him? Is it the very first time when he was ripping off legs from flies as a little child.. when he whacked the first time a girlfriend… when he did the abuses you wrote about like maybe a thousand other violent idiots that don’t become serial killers afterwards?
October 6, 2007 - 03:37 AM on October 6th, 2007
42- ” A short rope and a long drop is a quick”
Actually you need a LONG rope to get a long drop. Otherwise the victim suffocates under the most horrible circumstances…
October 6, 2007 - 06:53 AM on October 6th, 2007
43- What is it that you are asking saying because your babbling is enen more ignorant than usual. To read what you say, he had the right to kill because he was fired..he did it in a death penalty state..if he wanted to kill and live, he should have gone elsewhere..As it is, he brought this upon himself. He was convicted of a capital offense.
October 6, 2007 - 10:41 AM on October 6th, 2007
Capital Punishment is a stain on our national honor.
Who else executes prisoners like we do?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment#The_death_penalty_worldwide
Oh, some of Africa, most of the Middle East, and South-Eastern Asia.
SHAME.
October 6, 2007 - 10:45 AM on October 6th, 2007
Look at the company we keep on this barbaric issue.
———————–
Most Executions carried out in 2006:
1. China (at least 1,010 but sources suggest the real tally is between 7,500 and 8,000)
2. Iran (177)
3. Pakistan (82)
4. Iraq (at least 65)
5. Sudan (at least 65)
6. United States (53)
————————————
How does this make America better? How does keeping company with these lowly countries elevate our nation?
We are BETTER THAN THIS.
We can DO better.
We are advanced enough as a people and wealthy enough as a country to not resort to murder and simple revenge with our captive prisoners.
October 6, 2007 - 10:48 AM on October 6th, 2007
As far as the Blackwater case in Iraq is concerned, there is simply only one way to view this case: The Blackwater people are in an extremely dangerous and difficult environment. Mistakes can and will be made; decisions have to be made in split-second and cannot always be perfect. This is the same situations that LE officers face, but Blackwater faces it every day rather than a few times in a career.
Instead the Liberal MSM and Democrite asswipes want to put on their Monday Morning quarterback hats, assume their 20/20 hindsight, and judge people who have faced situations the judgers don’t even understand.
So STFU already about the Blackwater incident, MSM, Democrites, Leftists and others who only want use this as yet another incident to manipulate for political advantage.
October 6, 2007 - 10:50 AM on October 6th, 2007
There are no more valid arguments left against the Death Penalty. Cut and Dried. The only valid objection can be on personal emotional grounds, ie you just don’t like it. Well, the majority do, 2:1. So case closed, game over.
October 6, 2007 - 10:53 AM on October 6th, 2007
No, actually there are PLENTY of valid arguments.
October 6, 2007 - 11:31 AM on October 6th, 2007
There are Zero, none, nada, Nyet. The last one that held any water was the possibility of a mistake. The introduction of DNA analysis has eliminated that.
October 6, 2007 - 12:15 PM on October 6th, 2007
There are none to YOU…
But there are plenty to those who disagree, and especially to those who have already banned the barbaric practice from their nations.
The most important being the moral issue, for starters.
There’s really no use “debating” it, as people are either for or against and can’t really be talked out of it one way or another.
It’s really up to the judges and the lawmakers.
October 6, 2007 - 12:41 PM on October 6th, 2007
Like Abortion.
October 6, 2007 - 01:15 PM on October 6th, 2007
Leftists don’t have morals. Next?
October 6, 2007 - 02:34 PM on October 6th, 2007
“The most important being the moral issue, for starters.”
Legislating morals? I thought the left as against this, and on their view it is what is wrong with the conservatives?
“It’s really up to the judges and the lawmakers.”
Exactly, and they’ve ruled the death penalty as neither cruel or unlawful.
October 6, 2007 - 04:05 PM on October 6th, 2007
Actually Matthias, a long rope and a long drop results in the person’s head being ripped off. AKA Saddam’s Henchman. A Short rope with a long drop wherein the knot is placed at the side of the neck snaps the neck and death is nearly instantaneous. That is what happens when the sentence is “Death by Hanging”. What you describe is what happens when the knot in the rope is placed at the back of the neck and death is caused by asphyxiation which has been recorded to take as long as 19 minutes, both of which are still shorter than the roughly 30 minutes that the current injection system takes. Placing the knot at the back of the neck and causing death via asphyxiation is the penalty that is called “Hang by the neck until dead.” There is a LEGAL distinction between the two. To my knowledge, Delaware is the only state that has executed anyone via the gallows in 30 years. It hadn’t been done in so long that they had to search for the information on how to do it correctly. They ended up using information from an US Army technical manual dating from the 40s. There are very important calculations that need to be taken into consideration when constructing the gallows and determining the length of the rope.
The big difference between our use of the death penalty and these other countries is that we only use it on hardened criminals after due process. They use it on 14 yr old girls who happen to date outside of her religious sect. We try to make it quick and painless. They try to make it as painful as possible. i.e. Lethal injection versus stoning.
BTW the former soldier who instigated the rape of the 14 yr old Iraqi girl and the murder of her and her family is going to trial with the knowledge that if convicted, he could face the death penalty. He might not get it, but it is on the table. Personally, this man is unfit to live in a civilized world.
I do have one question for liberals. Why is it okay to kill a viable fetus (late term when prenatal care would allow the baby to survive outside the mother) for nothing more than the mother’s convenience but it is morally wrong to execute someone who has proven that they are unfit to live in a civilized society?
October 6, 2007 - 05:15 PM on October 6th, 2007
They cannot answer that question, FAO. Because their position is completely illogical, and only makes sense to an addled mind.
October 8, 2007 - 05:13 AM on October 8th, 2007
48-”As far as the Blackwater case in Iraq is concerned, there is simply only one way to view this case: The Blackwater people are in an extremely dangerous and difficult environment.”
Right as a dizzy crack-junkie when robs the liquor store…
If private civilian people choose to go to another country as wellpaid mercenaries and kill innocent civilians- I see no legal justifcication or excuse. But I guess right wing justice only sees with one eye and generously looses sight of flaws happening on its own side…
49-”There are no more valid arguments left against the Death Penalty.”
This is the same kind of thinking that psychopathic murderers go through: Killing as the only logic consequence to solve a problem!
October 8, 2007 - 05:23 AM on October 8th, 2007
56- “death is caused by asphyxiation which has been recorded to take as long as 19 minutes, both of which are still shorter than the roughly 30 minutes that the current injection system takes.”
Sounds to me like the choice between “eternity” and “eternity plus”… nothing real preferable!
—
“They use it on 14 yr old girls who happen to date outside of her religious sect.”
As I mentioned on the other thread, each country has its right to determine what is a crime and how this is supposed to be punished. In Thailand I may get hanged for smuggling drugs, in Singapore for littering the street and in Florida for lying naked on the beach…
—
“We try to make it quick and painless.”
Really, FAO, this is about death. If you want to kill somebody quickly and painless, you should know how to DO it- not TRY to do it.
And as the number of botched executions show, the executioners obviously don’t know how to do it properly and 100% “safe”
October 8, 2007 - 06:23 AM on October 8th, 2007
59, why don’t you actually try to be informed before you post and prove your stupidity?
SFL, You libs have been trying to make being a Conservative a Capital Offense for decades. Don’t get all righteous because the DP is actually used for committing a real crime, not a hate crime.
October 8, 2007 - 06:33 AM on October 8th, 2007
58- Well our Congress never thought to make the legally culpable under current laws, so this isn’t some right wing thing here, but then, if you actually took the time to study a subject, you would know that!
October 8, 2007 - 06:44 AM on October 8th, 2007
61- What of my statements do you refer to? The Blackwater case?
October 8, 2007 - 07:01 AM on October 8th, 2007
yes.
October 8, 2007 - 07:18 AM on October 8th, 2007
61- So since when does “your Congress” decide about capital crimes committed abroad by private forces?
Iraq has a democratically elected government and its own right to decide what to do with offenders on its ground.
October 8, 2007 - 07:41 AM on October 8th, 2007
They would be tried under our laws, as they are performing a military service..It isn’t like I went to Iraq and killed someone..if that were the case, I would be tried under Iraqi law.
October 8, 2007 - 08:02 AM on October 8th, 2007
65- According to various sources Blackwater has and had no license by the Iraqi goverment to operate there…
Besides with the suspicion of having smuggled weapons to the terror organization PKK, Blackwater does not seem to deserve any other privilege than a room reservation in US holiday facility in Cuba…
October 8, 2007 - 08:20 AM on October 8th, 2007
66 WHOSE suspicion? Spit out your sources, piece of crap.
I suspect you for being an information hub for Islamic Jihad. How about you getting a “vacation” in Cuba. Maybe a little waterboarding before some sleep deprevation?
October 8, 2007 - 08:24 AM on October 8th, 2007
66- but of course you can’t back up your sources, nor could you explain this:
Iraq Revokes Blackwater’s License Following Shooting of Civilians
Wall Street Journal – Sep 17, 2007
“We have canceled the license of Blackwater and prevented them from working all over Iraqi territory. We will also refer those involved to Iraqi judicial …
As I said, do research before coming to the table with a silly arguement.
October 8, 2007 - 09:07 AM on October 8th, 2007
“Besides with the suspicion of having smuggled weapons to the terror organization PKK”
Wow, I’ve seen a lot iof anti-Blackwater propaganda in the MSM, but nothing like that. Where’d you dredge that up Matthias?
October 8, 2007 - 09:09 AM on October 8th, 2007
“As I mentioned on the other thread, each country has its right to determine what is a crime and how this is supposed to be punished. ”
As does the U.S. And whenever it is (properly) put to a vote, it is 2-1 in favor of exterminating the roaches.
October 8, 2007 - 09:11 AM on October 8th, 2007
“This is the same kind of thinking that psychopathic murderers go through: Killing as the only logic consequence to solve a problem!”
Ah, the moral equivalency problem again…equivocating a death sentence arrived at by operation of law to the actions of a criminal murderer. Sorry, no valid comparison is possible.
October 8, 2007 - 09:19 AM on October 8th, 2007
67- Yes… one of my “Commie-Jihad-Fascist”-Sources- the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7008058.stm
—
68- According to some sources based upon the “Private Security Company Association of Iraq” Blackwater did not have a valid license. (src.: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20884905/ ) and the one they had expired in 2006 (src: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/17/AR2007091700238.html ).
And in any case I assume that this license would never cover murder of normal citizens or smuggle of weapons to terrorists…
October 8, 2007 - 09:25 AM on October 8th, 2007
72, BBC, that biased organization that is openly supporting AlQaeda? I wish you’d be smarter, piece of crap, but as usual you disappoint when it comes to giving you a chance.
October 8, 2007 - 10:40 AM on October 8th, 2007
72-Employees of Blackwater were charged with the smuggling. Blackwater wasn’t authorizing it nor did they condone it. Charges filed, case pending against the employees.
Blackwater’s license, that was valid as of September 2007, did in fact cover murder under the current laws.
October 8, 2007 - 12:35 PM on October 8th, 2007
73- To you, complete crap, everyone who does not share your distorted extremist opinion is biased and Al Qaeda supporting…
74- Assuming that there was any kind of license- I wonder what kind of formulation legalizes the intentional killing of innocent civilians…
October 8, 2007 - 12:38 PM on October 8th, 2007
70- “As does the U.S. And whenever it is (properly) put to a vote, it is 2-1 in favor of exterminating the roaches.”
Yes, but neither me nor the sane minority of your country has to be happy about that. In Nazi Germany also the majority approved (or at least did not stop) cruelties like the organized murder of people…
October 8, 2007 - 12:53 PM on October 8th, 2007
75, Listen for the first time in your pathetic life, German piece of crap. You are the one having a hard time accepting FACTS that contradict your dogma. To you it doesn’t matter what license or permit Blackwater has, you don’t condone them at all so anything they do is illegitimate and criminal.
Your problem is that your coffee nose is buried so deeply in your AlQaeda suporting sites that you didn’t notice upper management at the BBC got called on the carpet for being biased, hiring AlQaeda members as stringers for their stories, and flat out editorializing for AlQaeda by the British Government.
October 8, 2007 - 12:57 PM on October 8th, 2007
PCD- enough with the piece of crap!
October 8, 2007 - 01:01 PM on October 8th, 2007
Matthias, you really can’t tell the differece between Nazi Germany, where Germans killed Jews for no reason other than the fact that they were Jews, and the Death Penalty in the US, where a person is tried for a capital crime and convicted, and then sentenced to die?
Intentional killing is dealt with in the U.S., just as the arms deal was.
This incident is just like Haditha at this point. High on conviction, and low on facts in order to get a conviction.
October 8, 2007 - 03:42 PM on October 8th, 2007
79- I actually was “inspired” to the Nazi-comparison as Robert brought up the term “exterminating the roaches”…
It reminded me of a propaganda movie that was made by the Nazis to display Jews, Sinti, Roma, Handicapped people and other minorities as subhuman or non-human. The film contained alternating sequences of Jews in the ghetto (being quite dirty and run-down due to the horrible circumstances) and rats.
So Robert, Ted and all those idiots on this site, who tend to simplify their hate by verbally turning human beings into animals, pretending to preserve the safety and respect of one group of human beings, by propagating the extinction of others is the real loss of humanity- it is the real killer and terrorist mentality!
—
“Intentional killing is dealt with in the U.S., just as the arms deal was.”
So by contract, Iraq outlaws each man, woman and child of its people- sounds like an enourmous improvement towards the former Saddam reign…
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“High on conviction, and low on facts in order to get a conviction.”
Which is seldom a barrier for cases in the US to get a death verdict, right?
October 8, 2007 - 03:55 PM on October 8th, 2007
80? Do you even proofread what you write? ou made not one bit of sense!
October 8, 2007 - 07:00 PM on October 8th, 2007
80
“So Robert, Ted and all those idiots on this site, who tend to simplify their hate by verbally turning human beings into animals…”
Show me where I have ever done this. Quote me and link to the thread with the post number, Matthias.
I will not allow such unsubstantiated slander go unchallenged. I will defend my good name. If you can not support your claim (as I am absolutely positive that you can not), then I will request one of two things:
1) An apology in this post admitting your error.
2) A ban of you from this site.
The choice is your.
Ted
October 8, 2007 - 07:09 PM on October 8th, 2007
There is a HUGE difference between capital punishment and wholesale genocide.
The difference is that the person being executed made a conscious decision to put their life at risk by committing a crime for which the possible penalty could be death. If they choose to not commit the crime, they do not put their life at risk. Look at it like parachuting, as long as you don’t jump out of the plane, you’re at minimal risk of dying from the fall. Once you make the decision to step out that door, you’ve made the decision to risk your life and have to accept the responsibility if you lose it.
Killing someone during an armed robbery isn’t the result of an accident. A series of decisions had to be made that lead up to that point. If the criminal had made any decision different than they did, the murder would probably not have occurred. I love the moron who screams that he didn’t intend to kill the person, the gun “Just went off”. That’s a complete lie. The gun couldn’t have possibly gone off if the moron hadn’t loaded it in the first place, so for him to say he didn’t intend to shoot anyone is a bald faced lie. He made the decision to commit the crime, he decided to use a gun, he decided to load the gun, he decided to point it at the person, and he decided to pull the trigger. He was willing to take someone else’s life to commit the crime. For him to refuse to accept responsibility for that action is pure BS.
As for the moron who is sitting in the jail awaiting trial for multiple murders, he didn’t just rape and brutalize the woman he went to prison over. He held her prisoner and raped and beat her for 3 full days. Exactly why was he EVER allowed back out of prison, let alone 7 years early.
October 8, 2007 - 09:13 PM on October 8th, 2007
#80 Matthias as FAO points out it is illogical and completely wrong to equivocate convicted evil murderers, sentenced to die by operation of law, with innocent victims of fascist regimes. It is an invalid comparison, a bullshit argument.
If you cannot discern the difference then you are not worth debating with.
October 9, 2007 - 04:13 AM on October 9th, 2007
82- Sorry, I just saw that it was our racist friend “Mike Kilo” who used to refer to “muslim animals” ( http://rightvoices.com/2007/07/18/reid-fails-againsenate-blocks-immediate-pullout/ ) and not you, Ted.
I apologize for this, Ted- my fault!
October 9, 2007 - 04:30 AM on October 9th, 2007
83- “There is a HUGE difference between capital punishment and wholesale genocide.”
Yes, regarding the amount of victims- No, regarding the cold systematic procedure
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“Killing someone during an armed robbery isn’t the result of an accident. A series of decisions had to be made that lead up to that point.”
Yes, but if some greedy mercenaries come to a country without some patriotic motivation and scythe away a dozen civilians- that’s probably an accident…
However, I don’t want to discuss the question of guilt of real criminals or people who kill people because the willingly (for personal benefit) choose to live in an extreme situation and don’t stand the pressure and therefor “accidently” commit a crime. The question is, how to deal with such people and how to punish them.
And punishment has several aspects beyond the payback to somebody who (as you think) deserves it at the same level of damage. I personally cannot stand the idea of humans killing eachother, neither as victims of a crime nor as the victim of an execution. Civilized people don’t do that to eachother.
My gut feeling denies that, my christian education denies that and my 21st century western cultural background denies that. It is like seeing “Saw” and turning away when Carey Elwes saws off his foot- I simply don’t bear the idea of somebody killing somebody else!
October 9, 2007 - 04:42 AM on October 9th, 2007
84- Actually my intention was not to compare any Death row applying regime to Nazi Germany (although they are a bit closer to it, than those who don’t do it), but pointing out that you, Robert, are applying Nazi-jargon in your justification for capital punishment.
The guy who shot his wife and her lover in the heat of the moment did not do it because he is/was “vermin”, but because he is a human being and humans do mistakes- however tragic these may be….
October 9, 2007 - 06:31 AM on October 9th, 2007
Ah yes, and then when the heat of the moment is over, they go to court, and present their version of the events.
October 9, 2007 - 09:16 AM on October 9th, 2007
85.
Apology accepted- thank you for being a big enough person to do such a thing.