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	<title>Comments on: Is This Constitutional?: Boston cops to search for guns in homes without warrants</title>
	<atom:link href="http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/</link>
	<description>in all matter of opinion, our adversaries are insane.</description>
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		<title>By: Lyle</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/comment-page-1/#comment-673335</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 04:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/#comment-673335</guid>
		<description>First of all, 4th amendment rights are not limited to property owners.  The conflict in Hudspeth is not regarding varying consent by co-owners, it is regarding varying consent by co-*tenants*.  I have rights against warrantless search of my home, despite that the bank owns it.  I have rights against warrantless search of my apartment, despite that my landlord owns it.  I have rights against warrantless search of my hotel room, despite that I have only rented it for one night.  

That said, USvMatlock says that the consent of a present co-tenant is sufficient, and some other case says &quot;that&#039;s true unless the absent co-tenant has *expressly* refused consent.&quot;  I think that would apply in these cases.

HOWEVER, anyone who suspects that there might be contraband in their home would be absolutely insane to allow a warrantless search unless they had secured immunity.  Doesn&#039;t mean they&#039;ll know that or have the nerve to refuse.   &quot;Voluntary consent to a warrantless search&quot; is not likely to be quite as voluntary as voluntarily going to the corner store for a candybar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, 4th amendment rights are not limited to property owners.  The conflict in Hudspeth is not regarding varying consent by co-owners, it is regarding varying consent by co-*tenants*.  I have rights against warrantless search of my home, despite that the bank owns it.  I have rights against warrantless search of my apartment, despite that my landlord owns it.  I have rights against warrantless search of my hotel room, despite that I have only rented it for one night.  </p>
<p>That said, USvMatlock says that the consent of a present co-tenant is sufficient, and some other case says &#8220;that&#8217;s true unless the absent co-tenant has *expressly* refused consent.&#8221;  I think that would apply in these cases.</p>
<p>HOWEVER, anyone who suspects that there might be contraband in their home would be absolutely insane to allow a warrantless search unless they had secured immunity.  Doesn&#8217;t mean they&#8217;ll know that or have the nerve to refuse.   &#8220;Voluntary consent to a warrantless search&#8221; is not likely to be quite as voluntary as voluntarily going to the corner store for a candybar.</p>
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		<title>By: TedintheShed</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/comment-page-1/#comment-673203</link>
		<dc:creator>TedintheShed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/#comment-673203</guid>
		<description>27.

That&#039;s irrelevant. It is the parent&#039;s property, not the child&#039;s person, that is being searched. Thus the parent can waive their own 4th amendment right if they wish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>27.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s irrelevant. It is the parent&#8217;s property, not the child&#8217;s person, that is being searched. Thus the parent can waive their own 4th amendment right if they wish.</p>
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		<title>By: Pam</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/comment-page-1/#comment-673202</link>
		<dc:creator>Pam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/#comment-673202</guid>
		<description>The 4th amendment does not state that a parent can waive their childs right..&quot;The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.&quot;

It says nothing about a child not having rights..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 4th amendment does not state that a parent can waive their childs right..&#8221;The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.&#8221;</p>
<p>It says nothing about a child not having rights..</p>
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		<title>By: TedintheShed</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/comment-page-1/#comment-673201</link>
		<dc:creator>TedintheShed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/#comment-673201</guid>
		<description>25.

That is entirely up to the particular authority and their laws, but the search is itself completely legal per the Constitution as the property owner is waiving their 4th Amenedment rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>25.</p>
<p>That is entirely up to the particular authority and their laws, but the search is itself completely legal per the Constitution as the property owner is waiving their 4th Amenedment rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Pam</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/comment-page-1/#comment-673198</link>
		<dc:creator>Pam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/#comment-673198</guid>
		<description>So the parents are the ones that will be prosecuted...not the kids because they can&#039;t own anything..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So the parents are the ones that will be prosecuted&#8230;not the kids because they can&#8217;t own anything..</p>
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		<title>By: TedintheShed</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/comment-page-1/#comment-673197</link>
		<dc:creator>TedintheShed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:24:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/#comment-673197</guid>
		<description>No Pam- the children do not own their bedroom. If they did, they could deny you the right to enter the bed room, even as a a parent. 

That is what I am requesting in the previous post.

If you are asserting that they do own said bedoroom, please cite a case that supports that assertion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Pam- the children do not own their bedroom. If they did, they could deny you the right to enter the bed room, even as a a parent. </p>
<p>That is what I am requesting in the previous post.</p>
<p>If you are asserting that they do own said bedoroom, please cite a case that supports that assertion.</p>
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		<title>By: TedintheShed</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/comment-page-1/#comment-673195</link>
		<dc:creator>TedintheShed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/#comment-673195</guid>
		<description>22.
Exactly.

The person giving consent is indeed the property owner, which is is the parent as the property is the owned or leased by the parent.

Per your article:

&quot;Boston police are launching a program that will call upon parents in high-crime neighborhoods to allow detectives into their homes, without a warrant, to search for guns in their children&#039;s bedrooms.&quot;

Now we are back to square 1: you have to prove the contention that children have co-property ownership rights with their parents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>22.<br />
Exactly.</p>
<p>The person giving consent is indeed the property owner, which is is the parent as the property is the owned or leased by the parent.</p>
<p>Per your article:</p>
<p>&#8220;Boston police are launching a program that will call upon parents in high-crime neighborhoods to allow detectives into their homes, without a warrant, to search for guns in their children&#8217;s bedrooms.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now we are back to square 1: you have to prove the contention that children have co-property ownership rights with their parents.</p>
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		<title>By: Pam</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/comment-page-1/#comment-673191</link>
		<dc:creator>Pam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/#comment-673191</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;A consent search requires the individual whose person or property is being searched to freely and voluntarily waive his or her Fourth Amendment rights, granting the officer permission to perform the search&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So the parents can waive their child&#039;s 4th amendment right?  Do the parents own the property being seized?  Under your logic, it is the parents home, the child owns nothing, therefore the parents, are the ones that should be prosecuted..

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>A consent search requires the individual whose person or property is being searched to freely and voluntarily waive his or her Fourth Amendment rights, granting the officer permission to perform the search</p></blockquote>
<p>So the parents can waive their child&#8217;s 4th amendment right?  Do the parents own the property being seized?  Under your logic, it is the parents home, the child owns nothing, therefore the parents, are the ones that should be prosecuted..</p>
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		<title>By: TedintheShed</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/comment-page-1/#comment-673189</link>
		<dc:creator>TedintheShed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/#comment-673189</guid>
		<description>Consent is given by the property owner (the parents) as they waive their rights, there for it is does not fall under the category of an unreasonable search and seizure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_searches

&quot;In the U.S., the simplest and most common type of warrantless searches are searches based upon consent.[1] No warrant or probable cause is required to perform a search if a person with the proper authority consents to a search.[2]

A consent search requires the individual whose person or property is being searched to freely and voluntarily waive his or her Fourth Amendment rights, granting the officer permission to perform the search.[1] The person has the right to refuse to give consent,[1] and except in limited cases may revoke consent at any point during the search.[3] In addition, the prosecution in any trial using the search results as evidence is required to prove that the consent was voluntary and not a result of coercion.[4]

Sources cited in the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Consent is given by the property owner (the parents) as they waive their rights, there for it is does not fall under the category of an unreasonable search and seizure.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_searches" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_searches</a></p>
<p>&#8220;In the U.S., the simplest and most common type of warrantless searches are searches based upon consent.[1] No warrant or probable cause is required to perform a search if a person with the proper authority consents to a search.[2]</p>
<p>A consent search requires the individual whose person or property is being searched to freely and voluntarily waive his or her Fourth Amendment rights, granting the officer permission to perform the search.[1] The person has the right to refuse to give consent,[1] and except in limited cases may revoke consent at any point during the search.[3] In addition, the prosecution in any trial using the search results as evidence is required to prove that the consent was voluntary and not a result of coercion.[4]</p>
<p>Sources cited in the article.</p>
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		<title>By: Pam</title>
		<link>http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/comment-page-1/#comment-673188</link>
		<dc:creator>Pam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightvoices.com/2007/11/17/is-this-constitutional-boston-cops-to-search-for-guns-in-homes-without-warrants/#comment-673188</guid>
		<description>The Fourth Amendment says, &quot;The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.&quot;

Where does this eliminate anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Fourth Amendment says, &#8220;The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.&#8221;</p>
<p>Where does this eliminate anyone?</p>
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