California To Recycle Your Flushed Toilet Sewage Into Drinking Water…
Oh this just sounds so disgusting….
Nov. 30, for millions of people here in Orange County, pulling the lever will be the start of a long, intense process to purify the sewage into drinking water ” after a hard scrubbing with filters, screens, chemicals and ultraviolet light and the passage of time underground.
On that Friday, the Orange County Water District will turn on what industry experts say is the world’s largest plant devoted to purifying sewer water to increase drinking water supplies. They and others hope it serves as a model for authorities worldwide facing persistent drought, predicted water shortages and projected growth.
The process, called by proponents “indirect potable water reuse” and “toilet to tap” by the wary, is getting a close look in several cities.
Please share your thoughts on this shitty idea!
November 27, 2007 - 12:07 PM on November 27th, 2007
Gad, I used to live in Orange County.
I remember the snit the government enviro-wackos had just using “Grey Water” to water the plants in highway medians.
November 27, 2007 - 12:40 PM on November 27th, 2007
Using reclaimed sewage water for drinking is a very, very bad idea. They claim it exceeds drinking water standards. Very true: except that you have to remember that the testing tests only for a predetermined list of known toxics.
The chemistry of sewage is so incredibly complex that it is impossible to understand or know with any reasonable degree what sort of reactions and intermediate or final products are being formed. It would take a lot of work just to try to determine what organic compounds are present, and even then it would be a guessing game as to whether they are toxic and in what concentration.
Anyone who thinks the only issue is the emotional one hasn’t thought this through.
Any politician or local leader who thinks this is a good idea should step up and publicly be the first to drink this water themselves. I bet you won’t find any takers.
If we are running ou of water, maybe it’s time to start limiting the population. Let’s start by stopping illegal immigration.
November 27, 2007 - 01:13 PM on November 27th, 2007
First off, allow me to state that under no circumstance should we continue to permit illegal immigration.
That much said, I think it is safe to say I drink recycled water daily.
Living in NE Pennsylvania, well water has long been a standard. And so have septic systems.
Do the math.
I have what is considered to be a modern sand mound septic system, which holds solids in a concrete tank and pumps all grey water to a grass covered mound (nothing but grass is visible). After gravity pulls the grey water through sand, gravel, hay and other natural filters, the water makes its way back to the natural aquifer.
Done properly (which I realize is the key word), Orange Ctys plan is not as bad as it sounds. And I think it is safe to say that these systems exist in far more locations than you think.
November 27, 2007 - 01:21 PM on November 27th, 2007
California!
Still leading the country when it comes to environmental issues.
I’m sure that all you fly-over-country folk will catch up some day…
…maybe.
November 27, 2007 - 01:49 PM on November 27th, 2007
SFL, you don’t drink water. You share the wino’s Thunderbird bottle in the alley.
November 27, 2007 - 02:13 PM on November 27th, 2007
This has to be the most disgusting thing I’ve ever heard. Two thirds of the earth is water. We do not need to drink recycled sewer water. Is this one of Sheryl Crows bright ideas? Can you just imagine the diseases that will occur if this gets going. Gollll, just reading it makes me retch.
November 27, 2007 - 02:15 PM on November 27th, 2007
6, BonBon since SFL thinks it is so great, why don’t we put his mouth around the spigot for the first glasses of recycled water. We’ll see if he can tolerate it after all the cheap booze he’s gone through.
November 27, 2007 - 02:32 PM on November 27th, 2007
Maybe he’s already partaken PCD.
November 27, 2007 - 02:39 PM on November 27th, 2007
8, nah, his mind was polluted long before this.
November 27, 2007 - 03:17 PM on November 27th, 2007
Charlie, i am describing a different system. You are talking about percolating the water back into the ground, where nature cleans (and mixes) it.
What the pols out here are talking about is disinfecting treated sewage water and piping it directly to homes as potable water.
SFL, if the City of San Francisco wants to drink sewage water, let it. In about 20 years, when the residents are hopelessly afflicted with multiple cancers, tumors, etc. they will regret the misguided progressiveness. In fact I think San Francisco is the perfect test case for this plan.
November 27, 2007 - 03:19 PM on November 27th, 2007
Fortunatley, I will never have to deal with this. We have our own well, which brings up pure water from 550 feet deep. The best-tasting, cleanest water in the County.
Maybe I’ll bottle and sell it to the City folks who don’t want to drink shitwater.
November 27, 2007 - 05:45 PM on November 27th, 2007
Interesting responses… Charlie and Robert, thanks for clarifying a few things…
November 28, 2007 - 09:04 AM on November 28th, 2007
SAVE THE EARTH RECYCLE A ENVIROMENATLISTS WACKO
November 28, 2007 - 11:56 AM on November 28th, 2007
Robert is not entirely correct. The water will not go directly from the toilet to houses, the state does not allow that. It will be injected underground. Half of it will help form a barrier against the seawater intruding into our groundwater sources. The rest will gradually filter into acquifiers. That is all according to the NY Times.
November 28, 2007 - 04:48 PM on November 28th, 2007
I see what you mean, Jack, they will inject the water into aquifers. I just hope they know what they are doing. Treated, disinfected sewage water still has a viable pathogen count, and contains Nitrosodimethylamine (NDMA) and Chloramines if it has been chlorinated/dechlorinated. That is different from natural water that percolates into the ground. Let’s hope that as volume goes up the ability of the natural process is not overhwelmed.
I wouldn’t want to be a guinea pig for this experiment. This is just one more reason why I moved out of the city. I’ll stick with my well water, thank you!
November 28, 2007 - 04:53 PM on November 28th, 2007
Wow some people are dumb. Gee BonBon if ALL the water on earth is drinkable then go to your local lake or ocean and take all you want…EnviroWackos? People please! this is ORANGE COUNTY California, probably one of the most conservative, right-wing, Republican place in the country. Do you actually think enviro-lefties are making decisions?
Anyone who lives in a rural area or where they have septic tanks or hell anywhere where you pump water from the ground, I have news for you- you’re drinking treated sewage. Where do you think septics go? Where do you think your treated waste goes?
Oh and for that guy who says we don’t know how “complex” sewage is…news for you buddy- if you’re drinking ground water chances are some of that came from run-off after a rain. That runoff can be more toxic than raw sewage and it just seeps into the ground and into your watertable.
What they’re doing in OC is MORE than nature does to treat your groundwater. It is cleaned, treated THEN percolated into the ground (cleaning it more) before it hits the watertable.
With all the dumbass comments here it makes you wonder who’s drinking the shitwater!!
Oh and by the way, this is cheaper than desalination. So when the rest of Southern California is thirsty and paying big bucks to pipe water from the Colorado River and Northern Cal, Orange Co will have a local water supply that keeps going and going. Gee I’ll bet the folks in Atlanta wish they had that right now.
November 29, 2007 - 01:30 AM on November 29th, 2007
Jayson, where do you get your information from? Newspapers?
You are very ignorant. To wit:
1. “Anyone who lives in a rural area or where they have septic tanks or hell anywhere where you pump water from the ground, I have news for you- you’re drinking treated sewage. Where do you think septics go? Where do you think your treated waste goes?”
Have you ever installed a septic system? Do you understand what happens to the (clear) water effluent? It goes into leach field, you see. Now where do you think it goes from there? Down deep into the earth? No, they are designed and sized such that the effluent ends up evaporating into the air. The effluent does not percolate into your well or you’d be sick.
I happened yo have installed my septic system. A pressure-dose system, for those who know what that is.
2. “Oh and for that guy who says we don’t know how “complex”sewage is:news for you buddy- if you’re drinking ground water chances are some of that came from run-off after a rain. That runoff can be more toxic than raw sewage and it just seeps into the ground and into your watertable.”
Once again, you apparently have no understanding. Do you have any idea whatsoever is discharged into the sewer system, especially in a large city, legally and illegally? I didn’t think so.
You see, I served on the Advisory Committee for one of the largest Municipal Sewage Treatment Plants in California for several years. I just happen to know a little bit about it…
Now perhaps you could elucidate the depth and width of your expertise on these subjects?
3. “With all the dumbass comments here it makes you wonder who’s drinking the shitwater!!’
Considering what you asserted, I think your statement speaks of itself.
November 29, 2007 - 07:24 AM on November 29th, 2007
JaysonMatthew,
Listen you little trouble maker, go home to your mommy and have her tell you all about Democrat Robert Citron taking Orange County into Municipal Bankruptcy. Then have her talk about those idiots Tom Umberg, and the Sanchez sisters.
I haven’t even gotten to Larry Agran. Don’t tell me that the Liberals aren’t running Orange County. I can tell you about the RINOs that enable the liberals, too.
When you buy a clue for 100,000 Pesos, come back.
Dan Formerly of Anaheim.
November 29, 2007 - 08:24 AM on November 29th, 2007
Well I wasn”t going to respond but I will. My credentials happen to be that of both undergraduate and graduate degrees in geology and biology plus experience in the water industry….
Robert-First, read how basic septics work – ultimately the clear effluent seeps into the leech field which then percolates into the ground. Of course there are exceptions for high ground water tables or areas where it cannot seep, but I’m talking basic septic. Sorry we don’t all have your fancy system.
For someone who was an advisor to a municipal sewage system (Los Angeles?) you more than anyone should know that after water is brought to full secondary treatment its basically drinkable at that point we just don’t do that. AND with good source control, you can pretty much determine close to 99 percent of what is going into your sewer because people aren’t randomly dumping—not to mention the loads of testing required by the Feds. THIS water is brought to full secondary, THEN treated how many bottled water places purify their water (osmosis and UV) THEN allowed to percolate in the ground. Its clean. I’ll drink it.
Most importantly, where in the world is southern Cal going to get water from? If you live in this state you know we’re having some issues – Enviros turned off the Delta because of some fish and Colorado river water is in shorter supply because NV and AZ are growing. If you want to spend gobs of money on desal then let your taxes pay for it. OR unless you want someone to hit us with draconian regulations about how to use water and when we can shower, sorry thats not for me. Yeah its easy to poke fun at drinking reclaimed sewage but maybe you should do a little homework to see why we need it instead of scaring people with huge proclamations about your expertise and unsound science.
to the former Anaheim guy- when DID you live here? OC run by RINOs? Look at the state and Federal officials – ONE Democrat the rest Rep. the OTHER Sanchez sister in in Los Angles! The entire County BOS – Republican. Yeah we have pockets of Ds here but the majority of the county and the decision makers are Red. Citroen and Umberg are LONG gone. Agran is there but thats on city one guy. Check how the county votes for President, Gov and others. Red, Red, Red. OC is called the most Republican area in the country, Maybe when you stop watching the OC and see what its really like NOW not “back in the day” you’d have a clue.
November 29, 2007 - 08:24 AM on November 29th, 2007
Well I wasn”t going to respond but I will. My credentials happen to be that of both undergraduate and graduate degrees in geology and biology plus experience in the water industry….
Robert-First, read how basic septics work – ultimately the clear effluent seeps into the leech field which then percolates into the ground. Of course there are exceptions for high ground water tables or areas where it cannot seep, but I’m talking basic septic. Sorry we don’t all have your fancy system.
For someone who was an advisor to a municipal sewage system (Los Angeles?) you more than anyone should know that after water is brought to full secondary treatment its basically drinkable at that point we just don’t do that. AND with good source control, you can pretty much determine close to 99 percent of what is going into your sewer because people aren’t randomly dumping—not to mention the loads of testing required by the Feds. THIS water is brought to full secondary, THEN treated how many bottled water places purify their water (osmosis and UV) THEN allowed to percolate in the ground. Its clean. I’ll drink it.
Most importantly, where in the world is southern Cal going to get water from? If you live in this state you know we’re having some issues – Enviros turned off the Delta because of some fish and Colorado river water is in shorter supply because NV and AZ are growing. If you want to spend gobs of money on desal then let your taxes pay for it. OR unless you want someone to hit us with draconian regulations about how to use water and when we can shower, sorry thats not for me. Yeah its easy to poke fun at drinking reclaimed sewage but maybe you should do a little homework to see why we need it instead of scaring people with huge proclamations about your expertise and unsound science.
to the former Anaheim guy- when DID you live here? OC run by RINOs? Look at the state and Federal officials – ONE Democrat the rest Rep. the OTHER Sanchez sister in in Los Angles! The entire County BOS – Republican. Yeah we have pockets of Ds here but the majority of the county and the decision makers are Red. Citroen and Umberg are LONG gone. Agran is there but thats on city one guy. Check how the county votes for President, Gov and others. Red, Red, Red. OC is called the most Republican area in the country, Maybe when you stop watching the OC and see what its really like NOW not “back in the day” you’d have a clue.
November 29, 2007 - 08:50 AM on November 29th, 2007
19,20, Jayson, You forget Doris Allen???? Yeah, I campaigned against her. I’ll put it to you this way, YOU are A DEMOCRAT. I think I know you. You love to sneak into campaigns to report back to your Democrat masters.
When Bob Dornan got push polled, I got Bob on a 3-way call and let him listen to how badly I destroyed the supposedly Republican worker calling from Democrat HQ doing the poll.
I was the one who got Bill Press nicknamed, The Manure Spreader, on KFI. I was the one who Bill Handel taped doing a joke on Press as a promo for Press’ show.
And I Was the one who questioned the County boardchairman to his face about the loans Citron was allowed to take out to invest in those reverse derivatives.
I also stood up to the Anaheim City Council when they started their ban on rummage sales. They didn’t enact their ordinance until after I had moved out of town for a year. Yeah, I was the one that told them to call their former colleague, who was a Democrat, to tell him to obey the law and take down his campaign signs that were 4′x8′ sheets of plywood.
You want to go on? Listen chump, the OC isn’t as Republican as you try to claim.
Oh, for your info, I haven’t even watched that show you mentioned. I have better things to do.
November 29, 2007 - 09:03 AM on November 29th, 2007
Politically, it appears that Republicans do run the show in the OC
November 29, 2007 - 09:30 AM on November 29th, 2007
Pam, you used wikipedia. That’s a no-no.
As someone who got their tires slashed in OC for having a Dornan and a Dannemeyer bumpersticker on his car, I think being in the inner sanctum trumps wikipedia hearsay.
OH, you missed the prop 187 shenanagans by the Democrats in OC.
November 29, 2007 - 09:59 AM on November 29th, 2007
23- Are you stating that the people listed don’t serve OC? I believe that Jason stated that OC is a Republican stronghold and he added that there are Democrats in office as well.
Yes, you did have dealings with OC politics, but that isn’t what is being referenced..He made a claim that the R’s have more representation in that particular county, which they do..You had dealing with powerful Dems in the past. I am sure there are still dems that weild that kind of power,but OC is a predominately Republican district.
November 29, 2007 - 10:12 AM on November 29th, 2007
24, but the bureaucrisy is majority Democrat. When new voters go to the Registrar, they are given a Democrat voter registration with out being asked for one. A Vietnamese coworker complained about being chased across a parking lot and hounded into signing a Democrat voter registration form.
Also, Pam, there are very powerful RINOs in the county that thwart real GOP power. Notice there was no rebuttal after I mentioned Doris Allen? She sold her vote in the CA Assembly to Willie Brown, which kept Willie as the real speaker and Doris Allen became the figurehead, and turncoat, speaker. Doris was the only sitting Assembly Speaker in CA to be recalled and removed from office.
You weren’t there for all the RINOs who came out of the woodwork for her office opening in OC.
You also didn’t know that Loretta Sanchez ran as REPUBLICAN Loretta Sanchez-Brixey for the Anaheim City Council one election before she changed partys and ran as Loretta Sanchez, Mexican-american Democrat. AND I made the distinctions for a reason. SHE empathized them.
November 29, 2007 - 11:58 AM on November 29th, 2007
Jayson #28: First of all, “basic” septic seeps into the ground. But it is not designed or intended for the effluent to go all the way into the water table. Leach fields are designed and sized so the water is absorbed by soil in the immediate area. There typically is not enough effluent volume to percolate all the way down into the water table. Any residential system that did that would be dangerous. You should know this.
So no, neither I nor anyone I know of in rural areas is drinking “recycled” water in the manner you are characterizing it.
Now when you start talking anout Water Pollution Control Plants (WPCPs) and source control you display a lack of knowledge and experience. A plant with tertiary treatment (you call it secondary) does output effluent, which after chlorination/dechlorination is claimed to meet drinking water quality standards. If you’ll refer back and reread my earlier posts you will see I addressed that issue already. The drinking water quality standards only chemically test for a finite matrix of contaminants/toxics. Similarly, the bioassays test only for a limited set of “indicator” pathogens.
If you have knowledge in analytical chemistry, you know that sampling only for a known list of compounds does not tell you anything about what else might be there. You would also understand how extremely complex the chemistry of influent sewage to the WPCP is.
Source control is not what you are stating. Source control is only effective for industrial dischargers that operate under wastewater discharge permits, complete with self-reporting and random compliance grab sampling. And the range of organic and inorganic compunds that can be legally discharged under these permits is vast. There is NO source control for the public that can and does put anything and everything into the sewer. Everything from expired medications to household chemicals.
Now maybe you can characterize the nature of the chemical reactions that can and do take place in the sewer lines, with all of these chemistries mixing. And on top of that, in an urban area, there is a huge problem with runoff water getting into the sewer lines in rainy weather. Yes, that terrible runoff water that you asserted was “more toxic than the sewage” gets into the sewer lines then becomes part of the sewage influent to the WPCP. How much? Huge. Influent volume can spike as much as 30% due to influent groundwater.
Unknowns of all types, varying pH, organics and inorgancis, differing concentrations, etc. yes, maybe you can tell us what sort of intermediate and final reaction products are or can be formed, because nobody else can. In fact if you can do that successfully I’ll nominate you for a Nobel Prize!!! You can be a peer of Al Gore!!!
FYI, the cost of desalination has dropped dramatically and continues to drop. The biggest cost is the energy. If California went to 100% nuke power at ~4 cents/kWh, then the problem goes away and desal water becomes very practical. But the anti-nuke Eco whacko enviro dipshits have stalled nuke power here. Yet another example of where they are the problem, not the solution.
I agree with you on the regulations. I don’t want some bureaucrat telling me when I can shower.
In summary, my science is perfectly sound. My solution:
1. Get rid of the illegals and stop illegal immigration. Water use in the SW will drop substantially just because of that.
2. Go 100% nuke power for electrical generation. The cheap, endless power source will render desalinated water practical and the water problem goes away. And we won’t have to argue about shitwater.
3. Provide recycled sewage water for the eco dipshits that have exacerbated many of the problems we have. In fact, as I suggested earlier, provide them with untreated shitwater. They are typically full of shit anyway.
Now let me ask you a question: Do you believe human activity has caused/causes “Global warming”? The answer to that question, in a yes or no format, is a reliable indicator itself.
November 29, 2007 - 02:25 PM on November 29th, 2007
Gee did I stir the pot
PCD- we all appreciate the history lesson but my point still stands- you don’t live in the County now and what you talk about is ancient history, how on earth does that apply now? Doris Allen- long gone. Dornan- long gone. Dannemyer- long gone. Citroen- long gone. Umberg- long gone AND lost a Supervisor race to a Republican. Cut the conspiracy crap about RINOs and Democrats and see how the electorate votes. Is EVERYONE a Republican, NO. Does the County TEND to vote conservative- hell yes. You criticize me for not being there then so I didn’t know, well sir, you are not here now so you don’t know. I challenge you to come to OC, go to the Republican Central Committee and present your accusations. If you want the party chairs contact information (Scott Baugh), I’ll gladly give it to you.
Like I said, no one cares about your history lesson or what happened back in the day. Build a bridge and get over it.
Robert-
Ok, Global Warming, partially caused by man but I don’t think we can do anything about it so we shouldn’t invest billions chasing a solution we can’t fix. If we want to save energy or find alternative fuels, I say call it what it is and find them but don’t disguise it as curing global warming and invest my tax dollars in those pie in the sky ideals.
I agree with you on nuke power its cheap, clean and feasible. HOWEVER, it will take years to get plants built. Currently, DeSal is about double the cost of reclamation so until we bring the costs down, this is a reasonable solution. Do you live in the County? I live here and I’m all for it…if you don’t live here why complain? You won’t be drinking it anyway. I’ll gladly invite you to my house to toast the first glass of reclaimed water and give you some bottled water.
My earlier point about drinking recycled water is this: if you live inland, your sewage is being treated and discharged into a river, lake, stream or something. Eventually that water will make it into the groundwater table but by that point its clean. Here’s an example in OC: most of Orange County’s ground water comes from the Santa Ana River. The river happens to receive treated wastewater from upstream (in the Inland Empire) As it makes its way down then gets into the ground, eventually it percolates to the watertable and its pumped, treated and sent to homes, etc.
Don’t lump me in with eco-crazy-dipshits because I’m not one. BUT when I see something reasonable, cost effective and worth it, I’m all for it. I’m also all for Orange County having its own water supply and not relying on Northern California or the Colorado River. Eco-freaks got their way in shutting down the Delta because of the smelt and San Diego and South OC are in a world of hurt if that water spigot is turned off. DeSal is years off but reclaimed water is here and it works. I would wager any dollar amount that if you tested reclaimed water versus what we’re drinking already and have been drinking for years they’d be identical with reclaimed being even cleaner. Remember that after the reclaimed water is discharged and allowed to percolate into the water table it will be treated AGAIN when its pumped back up (years later) and distributed.
In short, you want to demonize me but in reality, we probably agree on most things because I can see by your messages you’re a rational guy with similar environmental stands as me (save the reclaimed water thing)and if you’re not drinking the water then you have no reason to get so upset. Your arguments about things we can’t test being in sewage also apply to our water supply in general so either we keep getting better science and deal with it, or we live in fear.
November 29, 2007 - 03:46 PM on November 29th, 2007
Jayson I don’t think you are an eco whacko at all and I did not intend my comments regarding them to be directed at you.
I generally agree with you. I just do not trust the use of reclaimed water for potable usage as much as you do.
I guess I have a different approach. These issues should be used to make the public aware that the obstructionists stopping us from nuclear power generation are harming us in a multitude of ways that cannot be overstated in terms of importance. If we don’t do that, just accept whatever interim solution seems attractive and move on, things won’t change fundamentally like they need to.
I would rather have water shortages and water crises as a catalyst to solve problems such as illegal immigration, nuke power, etc. than be able to just keep putting it off.
November 29, 2007 - 03:54 PM on November 29th, 2007
Jason and Robert:
Thanks for the civil discussion regarding the topic.
November 29, 2007 - 04:16 PM on November 29th, 2007
#27 “Ok, Global Warming, partially caused by man but I don’t think we can do anything about it so we shouldn’t invest billions chasing a solution we can’t fix. If we want to save energy or find alternative fuels, I say call it what it is and find them but don’t disguise it as curing global warming and invest my tax dollars in those pie in the sky ideals.”
Agree 100%. I think I would have answered almost the same way.
November 29, 2007 - 04:21 PM on November 29th, 2007
Pam you’re welcome. Sometimes I get a little carried away, but Jayson is making a lot of sense.
November 29, 2007 - 04:24 PM on November 29th, 2007
You? Carried away?
I hadn’tnoticed 
