Oh Happy Day: Telecoms Get Immunity, Dodd Doesn’t Get His Way, And The Nutroots Live Up To Their Name….

December 17, 2007 4:56 PM
Posted By:Pam
Filed in: Election '06, Election '08, Eye on the Left, National News

Dodd, FISA and the Filibuster — How It’s Going To Go Down and What You Can Do, is how this was layed out for us. Dodd was going to take the floor and not yield it. Who Will Stand with Chris Dodd for the Constitution? Well, as luck would have it, things didn’t work out as planned….

President George W. Bush’s demand for immunity for telephone companies that participated in his warrantless domestic spying program won an initial victory on Monday in the U.S. Senate.
On a vote of 76-10, far more than the 60 needed, the Democratic-led Senate cleared a procedural hurdle and began considering a bill to increase congressional and judicial oversight of electronic surveillance of suspected terrorists.

It includes a provision to grant retroactive immunity to any telecommunications company that took part in Bush’s spying program — surveillance without court warrants of e-mails and telephone calls of people in the United States — begun shortly after the September 11 attacks. ….

Backers of immunity, who include some Democrats as well many of Bush’s fellow Republicans, contend companies should be thanked, not punished, for helping defend the United States.

As Ed explains, “Even though Chris Dodd has used his flailing presidential run to highlight the cause, he has no hope of collecting the 60 votes necessary to amend the bill. In fact, now that the bill has passed cloture, it only requires 51 votes for passage, and it already has almost 50% more votes than that.”

As you can imagine, the left is calling for Reid’s head. They just realized that he only payed lip service at that Kos convention.. To top it all off, it looks like their shot at 60 senates seats is just a pipe dream!

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51 Responses to “Oh Happy Day: Telecoms Get Immunity, Dodd Doesn’t Get His Way, And The Nutroots Live Up To Their Name….”

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  1. 1

    The taming of a shrewd

    If only that were a word play on literature or the title of a movie, but Mike Huckabee is all to real and whether or not he will be the Republican candidate for president is far more serious. Despite negative stories…

  2. 2

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    […] Thoughts, Mark My Words, Allie is Wired, The Pink Flamingo, Chuck Adkins, Conservative Cat, and Right Voices, thanks to Linkfest Haven […]

  5. 5

    […] DragonLady’s World, Blue Star Chronicles, Pirate’s Cove, The Pink Flamingo, Celebrity Smack, and Right Voices, thanks to Linkfest Haven Deluxe. | RSS | Inlinks […]

  6. 6

    We’re All Cretins

    …Or, “What Advertisers Think of Us”

  7. 7

    Gambling on Florida

    Is Rudy Giuliani pulling out of New Hampshire?

  8. 8

    The Knucklehead of the Day award

    Today’s winner is Nomate Toate Kpea.

  9. Hank Says:
    9

    Uh, I think you need to update your story. Reid pulled the bill until January so Dodd and the nutroots actually won. What a sad day it is, the government and telecom industries unfettered spying has been put on hold.

  10. Robert Says:
    10

    Again, in the great debate between right v. wrong and rule of lew v chaos, those who get their money from the telecom lobbyists (Reid, et al) sided with those who gave them the money over the American people.

    John Stewart said it best: Let’s have a debate. One side will marshall all facts and make cogent arguements about why their side is correct. The other side will pay $200K to each of the debate judges. I wonder who will win?

    America, the best Representative Democracy money can buy.

  11. Randy Says:
    11

    Congratulations Senator Dodd. Without you, the atrocious retroactive immunity for telecoms would have become law. Reid has withdrawn the FISA bill.

    I guess if enough little guys like me scream loud enough, even the most jaded politician will listen. I’ll have to remember to contribute to his next campaign.

  12. jugger Says:
    12

    well quoted!

    John Stewart said it best: Let’s have a debate. One side will marshall all facts and make cogent arguements about why their side is correct. The other side will pay $200K to each of the debate judges. I wonder who will win?

    America, the best Representative Democracy money can buy.

  13. 13

    Karma bitch slaps a bitch

    It’s crude and callous enough to dress as a Virginia Tech murder victim for Halloween, but then to be entirely unrepentant in the interviews that followed, well sometimes one gets what one deserves.

  14. 14

    Have a “DarK” Christmas?

    CHRISTMAS fairy lights should be switched off to save the planet, Scrooge ministers said yesterday.

  15. Carl Gordon Says:
    15

    So I take it that preznit’s time has been dominated by productive pursuits, rubber products, and haphazard knowledge of the stars and other less recognized operating systems. His whole house of cads is hanging together barely by a thread, a ambiguous metaphor foisted by an individual with a flute, or a flinging of baloney at clueless people (media) trying to figure out which fork to use, as he embraces the promise of alienation and it’s various gifts it has bestowed on him. What is needed is dissolving boundaries, the latest tome by the Shulgins, ethno-botany as it relates to oemlets and other egg dishes, prepared remarks to fend off media dorks and the dopey 25%, the throb of the zeitgeist, existence in the indeterminate zone, and the opportunities of his dilemma. Wasn’t it Gurdjieff that claimed that people do not perceive reality, as they are not conscious of themselves, but live in a state of hypnotic “waking sleep.” My motto: While sleeping, watch. I guess I’m disappointed with the revelation of no commonality of perception, and it bites me on the ass every trash night. It’s the monkey mind, post-Mcluhanist. No one is in control, absolutely no one.

  16. 16

    Monday’s Open Trackback

    Starting today, I will be making every effort to finish moving all of my posts (written elsewhere) to this site. This is going to take considerable time. Almost all of my waking hours. I started very seriously yesterday and I got 2 finished, 7000 ……

  17. Carl Gordon Says:
    17

    The road Boosh has set out upon has been in a sorry state of disrepair for quite some time, six times, and for you loyal 25 percenters, that’s the amount of toes you have on your left foot. The bridge he crossed to get to what appears as a sun blasted lifeless desolate tract out in the middle of nothing (Are you sure this is the way?) is out as well, blowed up real nice, or so rumor has it. At the very least it would take quite a bit of effort to get back to where we were, as they tell me there is a sizable hobo camp inhabiting it’s forlorn and forgotten shell. The Caltrans worker he passed a day ago warned him that the rode ahead is in a dreadful condition as well, or at least that’s what he denies he said, as it was filtered through a formidable chunk of a puffy sickly sweet jelly doughnut confection crammed down his gibbering maw with suicidal abandon, unaware of the lurking type II diabetes about to cap his ass. And us? I try not to worry about the various potholes of of this preznit’s deceit, nor the road-kill that’s the price we must inevitable pay to play. Ah, but the play’s the thing, wouldn’t you agree?

    Gas is a small price to pay for the high fiber diet of Boosh’s life closely examined. Sometimes the pressure becomes too much to hold back as it attempts to escape in a barrage of born-again floppy-doodle, and we are ultimatley left with little choice but to reply to the unanswered question, squeezing out a joyous but cacophonous fanfare for this miscreant. Everybody by now has been warned or notified of his delicate mental condition, some getting more than a rebuke, others constantly thrown off kilter with every new geyser-like revelation.

    So we plug along, equally puzzled by where we’re going and the eternal battle with the con inside the White House, seeking freedom from all external constraints on our behavior. And ask anybody - he’s definitely misbehaving! The fear of being overwhelmed by, what lately seems to be the boogey-man of his impending discovered lies has foisted an extra heaping helping of denial and guilt, inserting severe limits on his normal exercise of desire, need, and deception. Afraid to move forward, fearful and preoccupied by the past, his uneasy self-hate a way of generating and then explaining his perpetual sense of being downtrodden and defeated throughout his life. When one gets chopped off at the knees by fate, it’s easy to feel defeated, which I guess is better than be fetid. The electorate has now jumped out of a plane twice without admitting how dangerous it is - Now there’s the possibility that some of the original mouth-breathers will do it again, and constantly run the lousy film back over and over. This movie sucks! The springs in the seat are goosing us big time, we can’t get comfortable, there’s sticky gak all over the floor, the popcorn is stale and over-priced, the media all around us constantly yammer, and we can’t get our money back.

    So what do you think? Do you think the tires need to be properly inflated? Or do you feel like a lot of people that the resale value on this car is going to be nil?

  18. Robert Says:
    18

    And your solution is…?

  19. 19

    Good News Open Trackback Tuesday

    When I first started taking on the large task of moving 8 blogs into 1, it was quite an overwhelming thought. I had all of my blogs moved from Blogger over to Wordpress, because they can import them into one site. They are numbered in the order to …..

  20. Paul Says:
    20

    The original post seems very misguided. The tone is taunting and boastful, chock full of self-congratulations at the idea that “Democrats lost and Republicans won.” If this were a football game, I’d understand.

    What we’re talking about, however, is a fundamental shift in our style of government. Warrantless wiretapping hits fundamentally at our national character and the freedoms enjoyed by our citizens. Retroactive immunity for warrantless wiretapping also destroys the rule of law by saying that if you are a large corporation allied with the executive branch, you are perfectly free to ignore the law with impunity.

    Is that the direction you want the country to go? Can you not see that due to these changes, we all lose, Democrats and Republicans alike?

    If there is anyone here who still supports the notion of a representative republic ruled under law, I urge you to support Dodd’s filibuster. Don’t worry, he won’t become president regardless what anyone does. Just look at your support as your patriotic duty. You don’t have to change sides of the political aisle.

    Just understand, this isn’t a football game, where you laugh when the other team loses. We’re all on the same team. I hope you can realize that.

  21. 21

    Hajj Intimidating for Secular Reporter

    And she was expecting…?Performing the hajj, the annual Muslim pilgrimage more ancient than Islam itself, is complicated and confusing even for those well-versed in Islam—so it’s particularly intimidating for someone who’s hardly religious. As a s…

  22. Robert Says:
    22

    Dodd is just playing Demoscat poilitics as usual, imo. This whole thing has passed the test in the Courts. The Democrites just won’t give up.

    Now they are on to this CIA tape destruction crap. They are trying to once again manufacture another scandal. The problem is nobody but them gives a shit about their friends the terrorists. The Demoturds are just once again making themselves look stupid.

  23. FrmrArtyOffcr Says:
    23

    Actually, I would have to say that immunity for the telecoms is essential. These are NOT Wiretaps for the purpose of developing a criminal case, these are wiretaps for the purpose of determining whether someone is a terrorist or affiliate thereof. The very idea of giving Constitutional protections to illegal enemy combatants or saboteurs is utterly ludicrous. It might not be a declared war on our part, but a war has been declared against us. We have to either fight back or submit. I personally am sick and tired of this whole “we’re violating their rights” argument. If they’re foreignors, they’re illegal enemy combatants. If they’re US citizens, they’re traitors. Both of which have a penalty of death. The illegal enemy combatants have no protection under the US Constitution or the Geneva Conventions as one protects US citizens, and the other protects LAWFUL uniformed combatants. The US citizens do have Constitutional protections only as long as they are calling within the US. Once the call becomes international, the NSA can listen to it with impunity. Should that eavesdropping reveal information warranting further investigation, a warrant would need to be secured to eavesdrop on national calls. I’m in favor of the NSA monitoring all calls going into or coming out of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, and a number of other hotbeds of Islamic Extremism.

  24. Paul Says:
    24

    Dodd is just playing Demoscat poilitics as usual, imo. This whole thing has passed the test in the Courts. The Democrites just won’t give up.

    Actually, this has not passed the test in the courts. The telecoms broke the law when they allowed the executive branch to listen to all our phone calls. If you look at your service agreement from the phone company, it explains that they will not do this. This is the result of the Church Commission findings from the 70s. Numerous lawsuits are pending over this. Retroactive immunity for the telecoms are Bush’s way of preventing these cases from coming to trial, wherein many embarrassing and damaging facts would no doubt surface. Bush doesn’t want you to know how he has been breaking the law. That is all this is about.

    Now they are on to this CIA tape destruction crap. They are trying to once again manufacture another scandal.

    Destroying evidence of an alleged crime (which is what torture is) is a crime in itself. You clearly don’t find anything criminal about it. Please explain this. If a murderer destroyed a videotape of them murdering their victim, would you still be okay about it? Or does this immunity only cover policies that have been championed by republicans? Do you have any principles whatsoever regarding this, or are you just laying cover for Bush? If the CIA had destroyed records of its criminality as directed by, say, President Hillary Clinton, would you still be happy about it?

  25. Paul Says:
    25

    These are NOT Wiretaps for the purpose of developing a criminal case, these are wiretaps for the purpose of determining whether someone is a terrorist or affiliate thereof.

    In mustering your defense of telecom immunity, try and keep in mind what is known and what is assumed. You assume a purpose for the warrantless wiretapping, but no one apart from those involved with the program actually know this to be true. Also keep in mind that every other regime that was able to eavesdrop on its citizens without a warrant ended up spying on their political opponents. (FISA was enacted after Nixon’s abuses.) Given that, I don’t see it prudent at all to assume the best intentions on the government’s part.

    The very idea of giving Constitutional protections to illegal enemy combatants or saboteurs is utterly ludicrous.

    I agree. Fortunately, no one is talking about doing any such thing. The current discussion is about requiring a warrant to listen in on any call that has one part in the US, and therefore involves a “US person.” It’s all in the 4th amendment, if this concept is new to you.

    We have to either fight back or submit. I personally am sick and tired of this whole “we’re violating their rights” argument.

    You need to understand that, dismantling our own historical rights is to actually submit to the “Islamofascist” worldview. If “they hate us for our freedom,” the surest way to capitulation is to dismantle those freedoms.

    Keep in mind that we’ve fought far more dangerous enemies in the past, while also retaining the Constitution. All that while, throughout our history, there was a neverending din from cowards here in America, claiming that the current threat du jour was so dire, that we just had to curtail civil rights. Fortunately, through American courage and know-how, were able to overcome both the enemies abroad and the cowards at home. And we will do the same again this time.

    The US citizens do have Constitutional protections only as long as they are calling within the US. Once the call becomes international, the NSA can listen to it with impunity.

    That’s just plain wrong. Fact is, the US government cannot listen in on US citizens without a warrant, no matter who they’re talking to. If you can find in the 4th amendment this loophole about talking to a foreigner, I’d like to see it.

    I’m in favor of the NSA monitoring all calls going into or coming out of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, and a number of other hotbeds of Islamic Extremism.

    And so am I, assuming those calls do not involve US persons. If they do, then they need to develop some leads and get some warrants; you know, police work. Sure, it may be a pain, but assuming you appreciate the liberties here in the US (and I’m being generous withi this assumption, as it seems you feel the opposite), the alternative is far worse.

  26. Pam Says:
    26

    Hank Says:
    7Uh, I think you need to update your story. Reid pulled the bill until January so Dodd and the nutroots actually won. What a sad day it is, the government and telecom industries unfettered spying has been put on hold.

    No, I don’t need to update anything..Reid pulled it, but it doesn’t change the procedural vote that was taken..as usual, those on the left like yourself, are not smart enough to realize that Reid is just placating you and when January rolls around, the vote will not change..there will be retroactive immunity for the tele cos…

  27. Paul Says:
    27

    there will be retroactive immunity for the tele cos…

    Pam, you seem happy that major corporations will be allowed to ignore Constitutional protections. Can you tell us why?

  28. Pam Says:
    28

    What Constitutional protections are they ignoring? You did mean laws that they are ignoring didn’t you?

    Am I happy? Happy to know that we are keeping up with the technology of 2007. Happy to know that terrorist activities are being intercepted.

  29. Paul Says:
    29

    What Constitutional protections are they ignoring? You did mean laws that they are ignoring didn’t you?

    Yes, you’re right. The telecoms are breaking the law. The Bush Admin, who asked them to break the law, are ignoring Constitutional protections. Let me know if you don’t know which ones.

    Am I happy? Happy to know that we are keeping up with the technology of 2007. Happy to know that terrorist activities are being intercepted.

    Do you know how many terrorist activities have been intercepted due to warrantless spying, and how that compares to the number of political maneuvers against the opposition that have been enhanced by the same? No, of course you don’t. No one does. That’s the whole point of telecom amnesty, to prevent precisely this from being known.

    Given that past regimes who were able to spy on their citizens without a warrant used this power to spy on their political opposition, what reason do you have to believe this won’t happen this time? And if your answer is as I predict, that you don’t care if it happens or not, since it will be Republicans spying on Democrats, then here are my follow-up questions: Would you be happy if a Hillary Clinton Administration, or an Obama Administration, were also able to spy on Americans without a warrant, so long as they assure you that they’re doing it for the right reasons? Be honest now. Also, can you not see the grave potential damage to our representative government if the party in power were allowed to use the state spying apparatus as a tool to remain in power, through spying on their opponents?

    You may prefer to stick your head in the sand and conclude that “it can’t happen here.” However, so you know, FISA was enacted as a direct response to precisely this kind of abuse.

  30. Pam Says:
    30

    First of all Paul, get the wording correct. Your arguement is that the telecommunications companies are breaking the law. You aren’t sure which law, you are just assuming that somewhere in there that there is a constitutional amendment that has been afforded to you that is being taken away from you…

    Do I know how many have been intercepted? Nope, but members of Congress do. We elect them to take care of this and they have been updated on the information. So your argument that no one knows is total bullshit.

    Which Democrats have had their telephone calls bugged by the Republicans in the past 8 years? I believe the number would be zero on that as that has absolutely nothing to do with this legislation. That is a totally different law and it is illegal, and has nothing to do with FISA…The U.S. Supreme Court Monday ended Rep. Jim McDermott’s long-running legal battle with a leading House Republican, when it let stand a lower court ruling that could cost McDermott more than $600,000 in damages and attorneys’ fees.

    The high court declined to review a federal appeals court ruling from May that McDermott, D-Wash., was liable for civil damages for leaking to reporters a tape recording of a cell-phone call between Rep. John Boehner, R-Ohio, and other Republican leaders discussing a House Ethics Committee investigation of former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.
    Would I accept a Democratic Administration exercising the wiretapping of terrorists? Yes, I only wish they had done it in the 1990’s!

  31. Paul Says:
    31

    Your arguement is that the telecommunications companies are breaking the law. You aren’t sure which law, you are just assuming that somewhere in there that there is a constitutional amendment that has been afforded to you that is being taken away from you…

    That’s not my argument. There is no argument. It’s a fact that the telecommunications companies have been breaking multiple federal laws directed at telecoms that were enacted as a result of the discoveries by the Church Commission of massive invasions of the privacy rights of American citizens and decades-long abuses of surveillance powers by the Government. Do I know the actual federal codes for all these laws? No. I don’t know the federal code for murder or rape either. I’m pretty sure there are laws against those too.

    Do I know how many have been intercepted? Nope, but members of Congress do.

    Wrong. Investigations by Congress into exactly this have been stymied by the administration. Congress does not know. Your argument that Congress does know is, as you now know and probably already suspected, bullshit.

    Which Democrats have had their telephone calls bugged by the Republicans in the past 8 years? I believe the number would be zero on that as that has absolutely nothing to do with this legislation. That is a totally different law and it is illegal, and has nothing to do with FISA

    It should have nothing to do with FISA. However, BushCo have been eavesdropping and datamining phone calls at large in the US. Whether any of the targets were Democrats with nothing to do with terrorism investigations is something that you and I have no way of knowing. However, your knee-jerk assumption of something you do not know is very telling. The fact that you were unable to provide a straight answer to any of my questions above is more telling.

    As for the McDermott vs Boehner case, all that illustrates is that if you get caught spying on your political opponents, and use that information in a public way, you’re going to get in trouble. Thing is, had McDermott not blabbed about the info he got on Boehner but just used it quietly, and had this occurred today in the age of warrantless wiretapping, you would not know that this even took place. Kinda ironic, ain’t it?

    Based on that example you provided, it appears that you do in fact value the integrity of our elected officials, at least when the one behaving badly is a democrat. But what about this question, which really seems to be the root of this problem: can you not see the grave potential damage to our representative government if the party in power were allowed to use the state spying apparatus as a tool to remain in power, through spying on their opponents?

  32. Robert Says:
    32

    “”

    Torture, Shmorture. Waterboarding is NOT torture, and I don’t give a shit anyway if they do torture the terrorists. Would you prefer the non-uniformed terrorists be summarily executed, as the Geneva Convention and precedence allows? (Actually, I would except they may have info we can waterboard out of them).

  33. Paul Says:
    33

    Torture, Shmorture. Waterboarding is NOT torture, and I don’t give a shit anyway if they do torture the terrorists.

    I’m really sorry you feel that way. Sorry because you missed an opportunity: there have been many regimes who engaged in torture and warrantless wiretapping, and it sounds like you would have fit in fine over there. I’m sorry about that because instead you’re here, trying to turn my country into one of those regimes.

  34. Pam Says:
    34

    31- Paul, we are talking about FISA here..please stay on the same page as the rest of the class. By your own admission, you really aren’t sure of the laws being broken, you just feel they are being broken. Hell you don’t even know . Do you even pay attention to what goes on in Congress? Try looking into the subject..start with Harman and Hoekstra and see what you come up with about who knew what and when..until then, don’t waist our time with a ridiculous bogeyman arguement that you simply can not support. Your arguement is bullshit.

    You were the one that claimed that because of FISA and the telecos..Republicans were legally able to spy on Democrats..well FISA has nothing to do with it. There are domestic laws within the states as well as the federal government that prohibit this. It just so happens it was a Democrat that was doing the spying..That is still illegal…

    BTW..on torture..is waterboarding just as much a form of torture as say a partial birth abortion is?

  35. Robert Says:
    35

    Paul, if we don’t win this war the rest isn’t going to matter.

  36. 36

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  37. 37

    Flight 93 Blogburst: Tbogg Lying to readers

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  38. 38

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  39. PCD Says:
    39

    Who let the Paul Troll in here?

  40. PCD Says:
    40

    Oh, Paul, I bet it did not bother you one bit when Democrats were listening into and recording Republican phone calls and sending the tapes to the NYTimes. Did it?

  41. Robert Says:
    41

    #40,well no, that’s a different story! When Democrites do it, we must relax the rules because their motives are pure! They just want to get at the truth, fix the problems, and make Government better, don’t you know? Therefeore we must put aside all partisanship, all laws, rules, and protocols when evaluating what the Democrites do!

    It is their intention that matters, not the details of what they actually do!

  42. 42

    Doozie of the DaY

    But while he’s busy defendin his pals, the Muzlims, one of ‘em killed a Christian in Gaza just a few months ago.
    Wanna know why?
    For the unspeakable crime of being a Christian.

  43. 43

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  45. 45

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  46. 46

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  47. FrmrArtyOffcr Says:
    47

    Paul, you have a number of historical facts wrong. We did suspend Constitutional protections during other wars. Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus during the Civil War. How do you think we caught the Chicago seven during WWII? They were German Saboteurs who were snuck ashore from a submarine off the Atlantic coast by German Sympathizers and were finally caught in Chicago. We caught them because we were opening and reading all mail leaving the US. The Constitution does not stop the US government from spying on foreign agents. How do you think we knew about the planned attack on the island of Midway? We cracked the Japanese code. If you want to see misuse of power, look at the Clinton administration. (Ever hear about the hundreds of FBI files on Clinton’s political opponents ending up at the White House) The Kennedy administration was even worse. (Ever hear of the hundreds , even by the standards of the day, illegal recordings performed by the FBI while RFK was Attorney General?)

    If you want to see an abdication of Constitutionally mandated powers, see the Carter administration. The Church Commission gutted our intelligence gathering capacity overseas. Carter nearly destroyed what was left outside of eastern Europe. Carter and the Church commission were directly responsible for the Tehran Hostage crisis (ever hear of it? Mahmoud Imanutjub has been identified as one of the hostage takers.) The weak response from the Carter administration, which was complicated by our burning all of our intel sources in Iran, served to lead Islamists to believe that we didn’t have the stomach for a fight. The wall of separation between intelligence and law enforcement agencies put into place by the Clinton administration prevented the intelligence community from informing the FBI that Mohammed Atta and other known terrorists were in this country prior to 9/11. Does anyone really believe that Sandy Berger was just “being sloppy” when he stuffed classified documents into his pants and socks, stole them from the National Archives, and then destroyed them? Why is his actions so much less important than the destruction of videos of two terrorist kingpins being interrogated? Especially considering that leaking the identity of the interrogators would put their lives and those of their families at risk? As far back as Thomas Jefferson, Congress was known for its inability to keep secrets, or rather the willingness of its members to leak classified information to the enemy for the purpose of personal political gain. Somethings haven’t changed in over 200 years.

    As for the NSA monitoring overseas calls, they have the ability to do it without a single physical connection. It is perfectly legal for anyone to monitor radio transmissions. Remember the airwaves belong to the public. Seeing as virtually every international, satellite or cell phone call is transmitted as a microwave signal at one point or another, it enters the public domain at that point. To claim a right to privacy for any information gleaned from a radio transmission would be like claiming a right to privacy over something posted on the internet.

    As for the 4th amendment, I did well in my Con law class. I still have my textbook.

  48. FrmrArtyOffcr Says:
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    BTW FISA stands for FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE ACT. It is about surveillance for the purposes of gathering intelligence, not prosecuting criminals. For that reason, it is questionably an abrogation of executive power to require warrants for the purpose of surveilllance on a suspected enemy agent. It is an attack on the Executive branch’s enumerated powers as commander in chief.

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    Christmas Video: “Twelve Yats Of Christmas” — Benny Grunch & The Bunch

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