Obama Courts Illegals In CA: If You Can Drive You Can Get A License!
Well, supposedly he is courting the Latino community, but I had to question that when I read this statement:
“Barack Obama has not backed down” on driver’s licenses for undocumented people, said Federico Peña, a former Clinton administration Cabinet member and Denver mayor now supporting Obama. “I think when the Latino community hears Barack’s position on such an important and controversial issue, they’ll understand that his heart and his intellect is with Latino community.”
Here is a bit more:
The Illinois senator is differentiating himself in three key areas: driver’s licenses, a promise to take up immigration reform his first year in office, and his background as the son of an immigrant (his father was Kenyan) and a community organizer in Chicago.
Obama made the promise to Latino leaders to take up immigration reform in his first year after Rep. Rahm Emanuel, D-Ill., chairman of the Democratic caucus, said his party might not raise the divisive issue again until the next president’s second term, assuming a Democrat wins.
Latino leaders felt betrayed. For them, an immigration overhaul is a top priority in light of state and local crackdowns on illegal immigrants and federal raids in workplaces across the country.
So he made a promise, but realistically, he isn’t going to do anything, but hey..his dad was a Kenyan!
January 28, 2008 - 02:38 PM on January 28th, 2008
This issue alone (soft on illegals) would stop me from voting for Obama, or anyone, for that matter.
January 28, 2008 - 02:54 PM on January 28th, 2008
Obama does favor this. I admit it.
So far, he has convinced me that it would be a smart idea for various reasons.
I have yet to hear an argument that convinces me otherwise.
January 28, 2008 - 03:12 PM on January 28th, 2008
Anything less than closing the border, turning off the magnet, and deporting the illegals, makes no sense.
January 28, 2008 - 03:18 PM on January 28th, 2008
Improbable, Impossible and Irresponsible to your offered three.
Need to keep head out of clouds and feet on ground when creating public policy.
January 28, 2008 - 03:24 PM on January 28th, 2008
It is all quite possible if the Boll Weevils would get out of the way…
January 28, 2008 - 03:36 PM on January 28th, 2008
Robert, closing thousands and thousands of miles of open border is impossible. There simply isn’t enough people or material to block migration.
Not letting in ANYONE with valid visas is also impossible and economicly damaging.
So closing the borders is out.
then, turn off the magnet? How? The US MUUUUUUCH higher wages for its workers than Mexico can offer. So much so that people DIE trying to reach those wages. If people would DIE to work, you will be very hard pressed to stop them from trying.
And lastly, deporting the illegals…attempting to remove over 10 million human beings from the US…there simply isn’t enough law enforcement, resources and funds to do the job were it even possible. Where would you keep them in the mean time? Hold them in converted school gyms?
January 28, 2008 - 03:37 PM on January 28th, 2008
2- Shouldn’t you explain why it is such a great idea?
Do these illegals have insurance?
January 28, 2008 - 03:39 PM on January 28th, 2008
6- economically damaging? The illegals are already crippling the states..
There are more than enought funds to pay for the deportation..I’m sure that the 10,000 earmarks in that last spending bill would take a huge chuck out of it.
January 28, 2008 - 03:47 PM on January 28th, 2008
Pam, where do you put TEN MILLION + people that you are forcebly removing from the US?
Convert school gyms into holding cells?
It’s simply impossible, with out some large scale Nazi-esqe removal program, to get rid of that many people.
Seriously, give it up with that one.
January 28, 2008 - 03:49 PM on January 28th, 2008
“economically damaging? The illegals are already crippling the states…”
———————
Yes, damaging. Say you remove TEN MILLION+ workers from the American workplace.
You have NO IDEA what kind of impact that would have on the economy, on prices…wages…etc…
You cannot remove ten million workers and expect no negative impact.
January 28, 2008 - 03:51 PM on January 28th, 2008
#6 Are you just pretending that you don’t know the answers to your questions? This has been debated over and over and every one of your objections has been dealt with and resolved.
There is not one, even a single reason to allow illegals into the U.S. that makes any sense or accomplishes any good.
January 28, 2008 - 03:57 PM on January 28th, 2008
By all means, counter what I have just said.
Tell me.
Assuming you even get them all in the first place, WHERE will you house TEN MILLION people temporarily will you process them for removal?
Is America again going to see camps built with guard watchtowers and barbed wire fence to keep people locked in one place?
Seriously, it’s impossible to remove ten million people for SO MANY reasons.
And, most importantly, it won’t ever happen. politicaly it is a DEAD issue, especially with the hispanic voting block becoming larger and more powerful each year.
Get over it, or it will consume you.
January 28, 2008 - 03:58 PM on January 28th, 2008
Assuming you even get them all in the first place, WHERE will you house TEN MILLION people temporarily WHILE you process them for removal?
(oops)
January 28, 2008 - 04:53 PM on January 28th, 2008
This is a red herring argument. Once and for all let me put this one to rest:
You don’t need to do that! Turn off the magnet, step up enforcement of exisiting laws, and the illegals will start to go home on their own. Then on a routine basis, as the remaining ones come into contact with law enforcement, they are deported. It will take time, but eventually the problem will solve itself. No major effort, no special program, no extra work required. It may take many years, but it took us 22 years (since 1986 Simpson-Mazzoli amnesty) to get these illegals in here.
That’s my program. Very simple, intuitively, totally makes sense. A certain formula for success.
Now please, let’s not see that “you can’t round up 12 million people” argument again. It’s a filler, a time waster, a nonsensical waste of time. Consider it with a stake driven through its heart.
January 28, 2008 - 05:06 PM on January 28th, 2008
You remove them one at a time..as some are being rounded up others will flee..they didn’t all come in one day, they won’t be deported in one day..
The jobs? You mean like the company that bids on a road job and sub hires illegals to do the work? How about we hire legal residents to do the work.. hotels are in areas where college kids need money..same with hospitals..not to mention all the retirees looking to make some extra money but not put in a 40 hour work week! As long as this country has employment, we have the manpower to cover the illegals absence..
January 28, 2008 - 05:27 PM on January 28th, 2008
I got news for Sen. John McLame and others who babble about jobs Americans won’t do:
My first job (age 5): Picking prunes.
2nd job: (age 9): Cutting apricots
3rd job (age 120: Picking apricots (right alongside the illegals)
4th job: (age 14): working Summers in a cannery (tight alongside the immigrants).
5th job: (age 17): Working in a used furniture store for minimum wage (loading/unloading furniture)
6th job: (age 18): Working as an armed scurity guard, for not much more than min wage.
7th job: U.S. Army, not more than minimum wage.
and so on until I started my own business and sold it successfully.
Get rid of the illegals and you accomplish some very positive things:
1. Restore work ethic. You start out at the bottom (like I did) and you work your way up.
2. Businesses and employers will be forced to pay market wages. No longer will some industries be unfairly subsidized by Society.
3. Unemployment will be lower. Some people are bums and will never work as long as they can get a free ride; but that is a topic for another discussion.
and that’s just for starters…
January 28, 2008 - 05:29 PM on January 28th, 2008
3rd job was at age 12…(not that old :”>
January 28, 2008 - 05:36 PM on January 28th, 2008
“How about we hire legal residents to do the work.. hotels are in areas where college kids need money..same with hospitals…”
——————–
LOL…you guys are dreaming!
College kids will not do maid work! These are low pay jobs that college kids simply are not interested in.
Ask any kid if they WANT to work at McDonalds, and then ask them if they’d WANT to change sheets at the local Motel 6…
It’s just NOT going to happen, guys.
January 28, 2008 - 05:39 PM on January 28th, 2008
“You remove them one at a time..as some are being rounded up others will flee..they didn’t all come in one day, they won’t be deported in one day..”
————-
Guess what? Many places are doing just that.
And you know what? they come back. then they get sent back. then they KEEP coing back!
You’re not getting it.
The MAIN issue is the wage gap. As long as there are very low wages in Mexico, and higher wages here in the US (even 8 dollars an hour is a GOD SEND to these people) ANYTHING you say won’t stop shit from coming over.
You are forgetting that people DIE trying to come here to work as a fucking maid.
You know any college kids that would DIE to get a job as a maid?
January 28, 2008 - 05:42 PM on January 28th, 2008
18-college kids: start cutting off the aid we pay to give them grants and I bet they change their tune real quick..And isn’t the fact that kids can’t afford college a tired song and dance if they refuse to work to get the degree?
What does McDonalds have to do with this?
Start going after the employers, as is written in the law and they have no wage to die for.
They can go home and use some of that passion to turn their own country around..be willing to die there..
January 28, 2008 - 05:42 PM on January 28th, 2008
You can make laws harder on employers.
Guess what? People will STILL come and work, get sent back, and then try again to come back…
The draconian and racist policies you people are trumpeting are crazy and HIGHLY improbable.
Let me make this as simple as possible:
There will be no mass deportations. There will be no national effort to rid our states of migrant workers.
You people are #1 offering the 100% wrong solutions to the problem, and #2 are making MAJOR political enemies with the soon to be majority race in the US.
Not smart, guys.
January 28, 2008 - 05:44 PM on January 28th, 2008
“start cutting off the aid we pay to give them grants and I bet they change their tune real quick…”
——————
Yeah, like that’ll happen.
You try and run for office on the idea that you cut aid to students so they are forced to work low paying/low skill jobs that migrant workers already do…
January 28, 2008 - 05:46 PM on January 28th, 2008
AFL what you are doing is just advocating and hastening one possible outcome, and that is severe discord, strife, and civil war. Is that what you want?
January 28, 2008 - 05:47 PM on January 28th, 2008
I mean, SFL…
January 28, 2008 - 05:47 PM on January 28th, 2008
Why are you people so irrational on this issue?
Why are you people so fucking afraid of low paid/low skilled workers?
Your conservative, absolutely worthless and xenophobic “solutions” are bizzare.
“send them back”??? Is that TRULY the best you have to offer? “go after employers” also demonstrates a total lack of understanding about the reasons WHY men, women and children risk their LIVES to come here…repeatedly.
January 28, 2008 - 05:49 PM on January 28th, 2008
It is you, SFL, who has an appalingly shallow lack of understanding of this issue. You parrot the talking points and drivel, nearly all of which has been soundly refuted over and over. Then when your back is against the wall, you play the race card. (calling our arguments racist and xenophobic).
I really gotta wonder what kind of education and socialization you got in Michigan. Or has immersion in San Francisco addled you?
January 28, 2008 - 05:50 PM on January 28th, 2008
Civil war? Strife?
What are you talking about?!?
If you conservatives weren’t so fucking afraid of BROWN SKINNED PEOPLE in your neighborhoods who maybe take fractions of pennies out of your tax dollar, there wouldn’t BE any strife or civil discontent.
Christ, they are people who want to work. they are people who want their children to be educated and have opportunites.
What bothers you people SO MUCH about these harmless human beings that makes you so irrational and emotional?
January 28, 2008 - 05:53 PM on January 28th, 2008
Robert, nice try but attacking me instead of the ideas just doesn’t work and makes you look bad.
Try again.
But if you want to play that game, I gotta wonder what kind of American, and what kind of HUMAN would want to take innocent men women and children and forcebly remove them from their jobs and homes and send them back to the third-world country they just escaped from.
Your opinions on harmless migrant workers makes me sick. and makes me sad that there are Americans who still feel like you do, without any shame.
January 28, 2008 - 05:54 PM on January 28th, 2008
We have no problem with brown, black, yellow, pink, orange, red or green people that come to this country illegally. Have them spend some of that passion in their own country.
And let’s not pretend they want to be educated when they refuse to learn the language of the country they illegally entered..
January 28, 2008 - 05:58 PM on January 28th, 2008
“And let’s not pretend they want to be educated when they refuse to learn the language of the country they illegally entered…”
—————–
Please. That’s FEAR MONGERING bullshit.
There may be cases of people who don’t put an effort into learning the language, but the vaaaast majority of them slowly learn and pick up what they need. And most importantly their children DO learn the language.
This is old school fear mongering. The SAME thing was said about the Germans, the slavic immigrants, etc…”they don’t want to learn the language”
you guys need some new cards to play. that one is over one hundred years old.
January 28, 2008 - 06:00 PM on January 28th, 2008
Many of you actually DO have a problem with the color and cultural change of your neighborhoods.
It’s hard to grow up in a white bread town and see it change quickly with new people, new languages, new foods, new music, etc…
I’m not saying all conservatives against migrant workers are racist (some may not even know it and will deny it), but a whole lot of them sure are.
January 28, 2008 - 06:09 PM on January 28th, 2008
30- No it was not said about the Germans or the Italians or Poles or anyone else that came here long ago SFL..they learned the language and adapted to this country..at home they spoke whichever language they wanted, but when they went to work or school, they spoke the English language..it may not have been perfect, but they assimilated..unlike the VAST MAJORITY that don’t feel they need to learn the English language.. but you already know this.
What do the migrant workers have to do with this? They aren’t illegals.
January 28, 2008 - 06:34 PM on January 28th, 2008
“If you conservatives weren’t so fucking afraid of BROWN SKINNED PEOPLE in your neighborhoods who maybe take fractions of pennies out of your tax dollar, there wouldn’t BE any strife or civil discontent.”
Once again playing the race card…now THAT is old…
“Your opinions on harmless migrant workers makes me sick. and makes me sad that there are Americans who still feel like you do, without any shame.”
And again…completely sidestepping the mountain of legitimate issues and facts to try to turn this into a purely emotional argument.
And yes, discord, strife, and ultimately civil war. Your blissful, childlike ignorance of the end result of the path you envision is startingly apalling.
January 28, 2008 - 06:35 PM on January 28th, 2008
Pam we are totally wasting our time. We have Matthias lite here…
January 28, 2008 - 06:46 PM on January 28th, 2008
Let’s just sequester all funds for San Franciso and starve some sense into SFL.
January 28, 2008 - 06:47 PM on January 28th, 2008
31, all liberals are racist.
January 28, 2008 - 07:29 PM on January 28th, 2008
Robert- Note how they went from being illegals to the migrants! Either he is playing games or really doesn’t know the difference..
And SFL, I don’t have to run for office to see to it that college kids start working at the jobs that ILLEGALS have taken from them..it’s called civic action and bombarding the government that I am paying to do the job that they are bound by either a State or Federal constitution to do!
January 28, 2008 - 07:48 PM on January 28th, 2008
Yes, I noticed. Just like he tried to sidestep and shift the argument over to pure emotion (racism, xenophobia, etc.). Doesn’t fly with me. Not gonna happen…
I stick the known facts and demonstrated arguments,,,and frankly, there is not ONE good reason to either allow illegal immigration or grant amnesty to illegals. Cut and dried…
January 28, 2008 - 07:58 PM on January 28th, 2008
SFL, as PCD points out, the racists here are those who see everything as boiling down to race.
Now I am sure that can’t be you, right?
January 28, 2008 - 08:04 PM on January 28th, 2008
Gosh, SFL, I thought me posting my own youthful work history would serve as an example of the natural progression of traditional American work ethic. Yet you just ignored it.
You…you have no counter?
January 29, 2008 - 06:43 AM on January 29th, 2008
40, Robert, no, all SFL can do to counter it is throw a tantrum or plot to have us raped if we ever set foot in SF.
January 30, 2008 - 01:12 AM on January 30th, 2008
First off, they aren’t undocumented immigrants or migrants, they’re ILLEGAL ALIENS. They’re foreign nationals, hence they are by definition ALIENS. They are here in violation of US law, that makes them ILLEGAL. Hence Illegal Aliens. Look at a GREEN CARD. It doesn’t say resident immigrant, it says RESIDENT ALIEN.
Additionally, 10 million of them aren’t working, perhaps 5-8 million are. The remaining 10+ million are sitting in OUR schools, collecting OUR social services, and receiving medical care at OUR hospitals free of charge. Do you want to know what happens when you make it more difficult for businesses to hire illegals? They stop breaking the law and hire legal workers. Make no mistake about it, hiring illegal aliens is AGAINST THE LAW. When a McDonald’s Franchisee says that he can’t get Americans to work for him, what he’s really saying is that he isn’t WILLING TO PAY ENOUGH to get Americans to work for him. Go into any In and Out burger shop. The staff is entirely American citizens who speak English fluently. The place is CLEAN, the food is fresh, your order is prepared properly and the price is less than McDonald’s for comparable food. Oh, did I fail to mention that In and Out starts their employees at over $9/hour?
We don’t need to deport the illegals, they’re leaving on their own. As long as we, continue to make employment more difficult and require proof of citizenship for public benefits, they will self deport. We simply need to make their existence here as unpleasant as possible, and when we catch them sneaking across the border, lock them up for a few months before sending them back. Most of the one’s Sheriff Joe has been making sit in his jail for 4-6 months have said that had they known that they would be jailed for crossing the border, they’d have stayed in Mexico.
Don’t start on the crap about the Mexicans being just like the German immigrants. The German immigrants (or my grandfather’s case Polish) learned to speak ENGLISH. They didn’t live in this country for over a decade while refusing to learn the language and demanding that everyone else learn to speak their native language.