AJStrata and Michelle Malkin are two bloggers that I have a great deal of respect for. I don’t always agree with everything either one says, but I do listen to them, and in this case, both are making valid points:
WRAL reports on a new statistical breakdown of illegal alien drunk drivers in North Carolina. It’s a blood-pressure-raising look at the deadly revolving door, catch-and-release, the deportation abyss, and the danger of sanctuary policies embraced by those sworn to defend and protect the public
And the deportation abyss is because the laws did not get passed and there will be no new laws for years to come. This is as much Michelle’s fault as those she lambasts – she just won’t admit her efforts to stop the legislation kept the status quo in place. I want to remind people why I call Michelle and Tancredo and their ilk Amnesty Hypochondriacs….
As people know I will not debate on false pretenses and lies. As the comprehensive immigration reform got closer to reality some panicked and started to believe exaggerated and extreme theories. They became invested in myths just as the left has invested in myths that Iraq is a defeat.
I have no choice but to remind people that actions have results, and you better take responsibility for all the results of your actions, not just the ones you wanted but all those you did not think through. That is the essence of law and order, ignorance is not an excuse. You cannot say I had not realized that would happen and get a pass on vehicular manslaughter. You can only get the lowered punishment for negligence verses premeditation.
Michelle and the Amnesty Hypochondriacs traded endless drunk drivers for the opportunity to try one more time to deport the illegals, either directly or through coercion from lost wages, etc. There never was going to be the removal of 10-20 million people who have lived here for years, but they were not thinking straight, they had to stop the bill which would not have provided the punishments they wanted. They did not care the vast majority in this democracy did not agree with them, and therefore they should have accepted the fact they did not have the numbers and let as much reform get passed as was possible.
The fact is we had two choices and they gave us the worst of the two. Choice one was (a) comprehensive reform passes with its imperfections, (b) the long term illegals get a process to prove they should, and then pay, to stay, and (c) we get to deport the violent criminals without minimal resistance from the judicial branch (there would be some test challenges, always are.
The second choice is where we are: (a) no immigration reform, (b) long term illegals get to stay and (c) we still cannot deport violent criminals. The lie back then was we could fix our problems with current law. I have many posts on why that was a lie and is a lie. So when Michelle holds up these examples of what she and others wrought last year when they killed immigration reform I can only shake my head and ask “what were you thinking?” Remember Michelle, all those dead children might have been alive if the Immigration Reform package had passed and these criminals would have been deported instead of given a second chance. You all own this issue now, since you left us with this mess.
I really would like your reactions to this. I’m still absorbing AJ’s words so I will respond in the comments section.
Pam: I honestly would not know if they are coming forward or not. But again, it comes down to priorities. I have no problem with deporting violent criminals who entered this country illegally. NONE AT ALL.
But I question the ability to prioritize of people who seem to think that giving a crime victim or a witness the third degree about their immigration status is a good use of the limited resources the government has. I don’t think the person working for a living is the major problem. i find the thought of not screening those arrested for violent crimes MORE unacceptable than the fact that some city has said that they have better things to do than play immigration cop. I would assume that they probably have bigger fish to fry than raiding meatpacking plants.
I would also argue that Chicago, LA, and NYC have had bigger problems than sanctuary policies. I’d start with the usual problems you get in cities that tend to de dominated at the City Council level by liberals.
And as for Canada, I believe it was back in 1999 that a terrorist attack was broken up when the terrorist was caught coming in from Canada. No terrorist attacks have come out of Mexico, to my knowledge. But we did seem to getting blowback from the tougehr security measures Malkin and others demanded.
Robert: You? Rational? Don’t make me laugh. You pretty much said that AJ Strata and I must have been smoking pot and you insinuated treason on the part of those who did back comprehensive immigration reform. Since when did ad hominem attacks qualify as rational debate?
Fluffy Kitty: Define what you mean by secured border. Secure against what? Terrorists and drug smuggling? Or do we want a no-man’s land?
I would also suggest that you look up the difference between a premediated murder/felony murder and negligence. Our laws recognize the difference of such cases, and have going back centuries.
Pam: I think that conservative leaders have failed. They not only have failed to provide the type of debate needed (one that is civil and with respect all around), but I think that they have actively contributed to the inability to debate that exists now. I have a very hard time debating when I half-expect someone to imply I am an open-borders sellout or worse, a traitor because I favor the approach of President Bush and Senator McCain. It’s hard to maintain respect for a side of the debate when its leaders seem to view terms like “Jorge Bush” and “Juan McCain” as acceptable. If anything, their use of those terms leads me to believe that it is possible they have an obsession with Mexico and a desire to stick it to Mexico as opposed to a genuine desire to solve the problem.
51- Harold, the key in this debate is forget about what you think someone is thinking of you..it isn’t relevant to what we are talking about. State your case and present facts when possible to backup your assertions.
Robert and FAO are two longstanding RV members and Robert is also an author here. Believe it or not, you would more than likely enjoy discussing various topics with them. This is the conversation that is the most difficult for us to have. You and I live in states that are not seeing the devastation of illegal immigration, while those two are, hence, it is a bit heated. What I am saying is that you have a position and they have a position. Each side needs to listen to the other and hopefully at the end of the day, we learned something. Both of these men have seen their public schools and local hospitals devastated, and that isn’t something we can just skip over.
A secured border means just that, secure from terrorists or illegal aliens. We need to have control over immigration. We need to know who is coming and who is going.
“I think that conservative leaders have failed. They not only have failed to provide the type of debate needed (one that is civil and with respect all around), but I think that they have actively contributed to the inability to debate that exists now.”
This is true, but it is true that the liberal leaders has also failed miserably in this respect. In many instances, when they approach someone opposed to their viewpoint they throw around words like “racist” and “genocide”.
Addendum to 55: The word “jingoism” is also thrown around haphazrdly.
“I am an open-borders sellout or worse, a traitor because I favor the approach of President Bush and Senator McCain. It’s hard to maintain respect for a side of the debate when its leaders seem to view terms like “Jorge Bush”and “Juan McCain”as acceptable. If anything, their use of those terms leads me to believe that it is possible they have an obsession with Mexico and a desire to stick it to Mexico as opposed to a genuine desire to solve the problem.”
I apologize to AJStrata for my first post, and Harold, I have been trying very, very hard to avoid insults. My comment about smoking was intended more tongue-in-cheek than anything, to addd emphasis to my valid and rational point asking whther you believe the same people who failed to enforce the 1986 laws. You extrapolated it to include AJ by your choice. I don’t know you and would not presume to seriously say anything about you personally.
But your posts, in my opinion, demonstrate a lack of real understanding of the problem from the street level. I am sure you have read plenty and have accessed many information sources. I just don’t see the grasp and priority of the most important issues within this argument. I do not mean this as condescension, just a reality check. I do get passionate about this issue because it is in the top 3 issues facing our Nation, any of which have the possibility to destroy America as we know it.
I get very frustrated when so-called moderates start bringing up arguments that do not address reality.
Irrational? Not by a mile. That is your own version of ad hominem.
Here’s my plan, which I have posted many times before. it is close to the House version:
1. TURN OFF the magnet.
2. Close the border.
3. End the anchor baby and chain migration.
4. Increase penalties for hiring illegals.
5. Deport ALL illegal criminals in our jails and prisons.
Once we have the problem under control, then we can start a guest worker program. But until we take stock, take charge, and get this under control we shouldn’t be doing anything else. The 1986 amnesty gave them all the bennies, without the enforcement. Now it is time for the enforcement first; then the bennies.
Anything less is going down the same failed road. One definition of stupid is doing the same thing and expecting different results.
We simply can’t afford to be stupid any longer.
Forgot to write in above post that, Harold, nobody is calling you a traitor. And I think any obsession is with doing what’s right for America. You are implying they are Xenophobes and Racists. You cry “Ad Hominem” then implicity use the same yourself.
The email states “Remember Michelle, all those dead children might have been alive if the Immigration Reform package had passed and these criminals would have been deported instead of given a second chance.”
That is NOT a true statement. Laying the dead bodies of children at the feet of people who want people to come here legally is really pathetic. I don’t believe for one minute there would have been a massive deportation if McCain’s immigration bill had passed.
“”AJ is correct in stating that we were never going to deport all the illegalsâ€
I’ve been saying this to you guys for years. (!)”
HOW MANY TIMES do you people have to be told that we don’t need to deport all the illegals? You keep throwing that up and it is a Red Herring, a smokescreen, a bullshit argument.
TURN OFF the magnet. Once they know the game is over, many will leave on their own. The word will go back. Then by normal operation of law (something I know all about) identified illegals will be repatriated gradually. It might take 20 years, but it took 20 years to get to this point.
We DON’T NEED to find and deport all the illegals!!! GET it?
Pam: Perhaps, but I have seen the Republican Party in my state take that hard-line position on illegal immigration, and run with it all the way to defeat for three consecutive years. It has failed each time.
The positions they hold cannot win Republican primaries, In 2006, in Arizona, Randy Graf ran on a hard-line position on immigration and lost in the general. He won the nomination with maybe 43% of the vote because two more moderate Republicans split the vote – Republicans who backed the President’s approach. As a result, the GOP arguably lost a Congressional seat.
Yet, at the same time, any time this failure to win at the polls is pointed out, they refuse to listen, to put it mildly. they keep telling me it is a winner, even though I have seen with my own eyes it is not. Worse, by insisting on a hard-line position on this issue that has not played well at the polls, I believe that they are placing successfully dealing with far more important things (particularly the Global War on Terror and reforming Social Security and Medicare) at risk.
I fear that a minority is wagging the dog, so to speak. From what I can gather, many of these contested primaries, like those involving Congressman Cannon of Utah, or the Republican presidential nomination this year indicate most Republicans prefer comprehensive immigration reform – or at least the candidates who have supported it. At some point, elections, particularly Republican primaries where this issue has been fought on ad nauseum need to mean something.
Robert: Oh… and what exactly should one call your insinuations that AJ and I smoke pot?
You flip the ad hominems yourself, but you can’t take what might be return fire. That makes you little better than a schoolyard bully.
Oh, and on “self-deportation,” Robert, you forget one thing:
these people are coming from places and circumstances FAR WORSE than unemployment here in the U.S.
With the underground economy in the U.S. (and let’s be honest, one does exist), they will probably become part of that instead , and stick it out here. They have been through far worse than you just to get here. To make them go, you will need to either root them out yourself OR you need to make life here in America WORSE than life was for them back in the old country.
Quite frankly, I think you would be deporting yourself long before they began to pack their bags and head home.
Debbie:
I don’t see how that is so unreasonable. When you demand a diversion or resources from serious problems to do things like raid meatpacking plants or construction sites, rather than processing the deportations of illegal immigrants who are in jail for serious offenses, or who are being arrested for violent crimes, then you are allowing some of the latter to slip through.
Given the way that I have seen Malkin and other opponents of the President’s approach use tragic violent crimes, I sometimes think that they do need a level of killing to keep their agenda viable.
Those illegals sitting in jail will stay in jail and then supposedly be deported…we make them do the time and then we deport them only to have many come right back in…
What underground economy? If the jobs dry up, they have no reason to stick around. Crime? they’re doing that now, in numbers here far in excess of their percentage of the population.
Removal by operation of law will solve the problem eventually, or at least reduce the numbers to a tolerable level, for the remaining ones that don’t leave voluntarily.
Things are getting so desperate in parts of Kalifornia it seems only a matter of time before we have chaos and civil war along the lines of the Shiites and the Sunnis.
“Robert: Oh: and what exactly should one call your insinuations that AJ and I smoke pot?”
I apologized to AJ (for something else), YOU characterized my comment as pertaining to AJ, and I stated my original intention in making the smoking argument. So now you can apologize to AJ for dragging him into your issue?
Your turn…
51 – HCH
“Fluffy Kitty: Define what you mean by secured border. Secure against what? Terrorists and drug smuggling? Or do we want a no-man’s land?”
I would be happy if 90% of the illegal traffic (going either way) was stopped. That would entail a robust physical obstruction in any area within, say, 30 miles of access to roadways on this side. It would have to be backed up with sufficient boots on the ground (we don’t have that now) with the mandate to stop everyone.
I am curious about your response. How do you propose telling a terrorist from a drug smuggler from a would-be dish-washer? Through 10x binoculars they all look the same.
51 – HCH
“I would also suggest that you look up the difference between a premediated murder/felony murder and negligence. Our laws recognize the difference of such cases, and have going back centuries.”
What has that got to do with my questions? …Nothing – you are deflecting. Nowhere was premediation indicated. Gun battles happen. Innocent victims can be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Granted, I was tired and could have worded my post better – I’ll try again.. I would appreciate answers.
Do you think the family of a victim killed by an illegal alien drunk driver who does construction work feels any less pain than the family of a victim shot by an illegal alien drug dealer? Do you really believe less harm has been done to the family by the former?
——————————–
Do you understand the cultural differences when it comes to driving while drunk? For hispanics (not just those here illegally) it can be an expression of machismo. Being stopped by the cops is viewed as an annoyance; it’s really not much of a deterrent. There is a certain level of resentment that US cops don’t play by the same rules as the ones they are used to.
A) The action (driving while drunk) not only has no social stigma, it is admired by some.
B) If the policia stop you, it’s only to make a few bucks – slip them some and be on your way.
—warning — More often than not, B no longer applies to tourists
That’s the mindset – I actually find it a greater danger than selling drugs, as each and every one of us is a potential victim.
61 – HCH
“In 2006, in Arizona, Randy Graf ran on a hard-line position on immigration and lost in the general. He won the nomination with maybe 43% of the vote because two more moderate Republicans split the vote – Republicans who backed the President’s approach. As a result, the GOP arguably lost a Congressional seat.”
I doubt you are familiar enough with Arizona politics, or what happened in the AZ CD8 race, to accurately interpret the result.
Hey fluffy, can you explain what went down in the race so those of us that don’t know are more familiar with it?
Thanks
~ Pam
Pam,
I don’t know if I can without blowing a gasket and using every cuss word I know.
The short version is that the RNCC (Republican National Congressional Committee) INTERFERED in the local primary and then, when the primary voters defied them; Open Borders Mafia Republicans committed treason by actively and openly supporting the Democrat candidate.
The bottom line is THE NATIONAL GOP made the decision to GIVE the AZ CD8 seat to the Democrats without a fight BECAUSE Open Borders and amnesty was more important than any other issue.
Look who they gave it to, without any protest… Gabby Giffords. Look her up… look up her voting record. The National GOP betrayed us and cut off their nose to spite their face.
That’s one reason it really IRKS me whenever I hear anyone say we need to be loyal to the GOP and vote for the Republican candidate, whether we agree with his/her positions or not.
Fluffy, thanks for the firsthand explanation. Kind of sheds a different light on what we’re being told above, doesn’t it?
And I, like you, have a difficult time even thinking about this critical issue, seeing the sellout by the RINOs, without blowing a gasket.
fluffy, I’ll do some research. 2 points though
1. The RNC has done a horrendous job of putting up good candidates. This fall is horrific
2. I support McCain inspite of his immigration stance. I also find the SCOTUS to be of importance, as well as judicial nominees on other courts. The war, taxes, economy, education, abortion and the military are also very important to me.
If love means never having to say you are sorry, then supporting a candidate doesn’t mean you can never disagree.
One point that I think needs to be brought up at this point is the way these bills have been written. What’s getting tossed in that had no place there? IIRC, the immigration bill was agreed upon and then words were added after the vote?
Another thing that is bothering me about the last immigration bill: A pathway to citizenship..who says the 10-12 million actually want it? What is the guarantee that they will come out of the shadows, pay the fine and become citizen’s? Let’s say they don’t come forward, who is going to go looking for them? What is the benefit of them coming forward?
“Another thing that is bothering me about the last immigration bill: A pathway to citizenship..who says the 10-12 million actually want it? What is the guarantee that they will come out of the shadows, pay the fine and become citizen’s? Let’s say they don’t come forward, who is going to go looking for them? What is the benefit of them coming forward?”
You nailed another of the things that don’t add up, Pam. Why would someone pay that money when they can just go on as they are? I’ll bet most of them would not pay, would stay illegal.
We would not substantially change much of anything that is wrong, with that bill, and we’d send another message to their homeland that we’re really not serious so come on down!
“What is the benefit of them coming forward?”
Perhaps so as not to embarass Ted Kennedy? After all he has faith, he’s counting on them, and surely they will not let him down?
Pam,
I agree, there are many important issues. The war in Iraq will end.
As much as I dislike Hillary, I don’t believe she will be outright foolish. I can’t say the same for Obama; however, I firmly believe the repercussions and problems brought by an unsecure border and continuing illegal immigration will prove to have a greater impact on this country than the war in Iraq in the long term.
I cannot see how anyone with a straight face can say they are concerned about terrorism and at the same time object to securing our very borders.
One of the problems with granting citizenship is that we allow others to retain their original citizenship. There is no requirement for allegiance to this country ONLY.
Calderon: “Wherever there is a Mexican, that is Mexicoâ€.
The debasement of citizenship was a feature of the decline of the Roman Republic. It took them hundreds of years, we’ve done it in only 40 or so. Woo Hoo!
78 Robert,
BINGO!
28 HCH,
“I think the first priorities have to be violent criminals, drug dealers, and terrorists. Once those segments under control, then talk to me about others,”
Our border with Mexico is a revolving door for violent criminals and drug dealers. For terrorists it is a welcome mat.
If this is your first priority, then securing the border should be #1 on your list of actions that need to be taken. Are we then in agreement that securing the borders is the highest priority?
21 AJStrata,
“The truth is there will be no legislation for years – another result the far right did not appreciate when it pulled out all the stops to stop the legislation.”
What benefit is there in compounding a problem with poor legislation? (And, yes, it was poor. If there had not been massive problems with it, it would have passed. Allowing only a 24 hour time frame for a background check before the automatic awarding of a Z visa kicked in was one such problem.)
75- How cute that you think there is anything that ould embarass that murdering sot! :-j
It’s hard to have a discussion when those holding other opinions cut and run. :-l
71: Fluffy Kitty neglects to mention that Randy Graf only got 42.2% of the vote in the primary. That’s nowhere near a majority of the primary voters.
(Source: http://www.azsos.gov/election/2006/Primary/Canvass2006PE.pdf)
Yet Jim Kolbe, who favored the approach by President Bush, won that district with 60% of the vote the two previous elections… how does Randy Graf lose 18 points of support in the state that is supposedly most affected by illegal immigration.
Could it be that the voters of the 8th congressional district did not like him. What proves that there was sabotage or treason, other than Fluffy Kitty’s say-so?
Fluffy Kitty:
As I said, if terrorism is the big issue, then look more towards Canada, not Mexico. Canada gives Islamic radical asylum, meaning they get new identities, Canadian passports, and welfare benefits as well.
As for violent criminals and drug dealers, why not screen when we arrest them? Why waste time raiding meatpacking plants and construction sites?
First of all, it was not the “Far Right”that defeated that shamnesty bill, it was the collective voice of the American people, right and left. It is a canard that the only opponents to illegal immigration are extreme right wing republicans. The fact is that anytime the public is polled on illegal immigration, the results are pretty much the same, about two thirds of the public wants the laws enforced and the flow stopped, and then they’ll listen to ideas about a guest worker program, but not before then. And AJ, stop using that stupid phrase, “Amnesty Hypochondriacsâ€. Every time you say that, you ought to be arrested by the prose police for the felony stupid abuse of a word.
Second, there were a lot of real problems with that bill. There were a lot of snakes in the oil that were being purposely hidden from the public. That’s why McCain and Kennedy tried to subvert the process and work around the normal committees and just vote on it up or down before anyone got a chance to read it. They were literally adding changes the night before the vote. They would not allow Americans or even the voting Congress to know what they were doing, that was what created so much anger. These two jerks were attempting to pass what would have amounted to the most significant legislation as far as its impact on America in the last twenty years and they didn’t want to debate one damned point of it, and you stand there and talk about the debate we need to have? The fact is that whenever we start debating the illegal alien problem, rational minds quickly see that there are real problems created when one tries to legalize illegality.
This bill was not well thought out and it was probably impossible to actually implement it. It proposed having workers ‘come out of the shadows’ and identify themselves. How do you confirm who they really are? What would stop someone, maybe a felon, who has been stealing identities for years from walking in and giving a false name? Now you have given a legal and legit false identity to someone who can go out and purchase a gun or do one of any number of things they couldn’t before. What would keep that person from walking in from the shadows and getting five new legit fake identities? Do you see what I’m getting at? You cannot have someone walk into an ICE office with nothing in their pocket but lint and give them a brand new American identity based on their word alone. What would stop a woman from getting nine or ten identities and getting social services on all of them? (hint: this has already been done). So you say we have to have background checks. One of the snakes in this bills oil was that if the background check was not completed within 24 hours, the work visa would be approved. 24 hours? We have a government organization called CIS, that conducts these checks. They get through about 30,000 a year. How many years would it take to do twelve million? (probably more than 24 hours) Other snakes in the oil, these new guest workers would be eligible for drivers licenses, which because of motor voter laws, would automatically put them on the voters list. When challenged on this, McCain lied and said they wouldn’t be able to vote. Reality was another story. Another little snake in this bill was the “assumption of eligibility”clause which stated that any undocumented person would be considered eligible for the new guest worker program, so they would not be subject to deportation. This would mean that INS would not be able to pick up illegals anymore because technically, nobody would meet that status unless you could prove they were deported before. And when the Mexican authorities will give you a Consular Matricula card without you showing any proof of who you are, you could come up here with a different name every time. The same people who endlessly rant about not being able to deport 12 million people claim that it would be no problem to cherry pick the two million with criminal records and send them back post haste. Does anybody really believe that. This bill was meant to create a law that was never going to be enforced, but the amnesty part of it would be in force.
Another little gem was that these new guest workers would get union scale wages! Yes, that was in the law. Now we have a law mandating that they get paid MORE than some American citizens. I can actually see a positive side to this. The truth is that the only reason employers hire illegals now is that they get away with paying them a lot less money. If this law part of the law were to actually happen, and the old illegals demanded union scale, they would be let go and new illegals willing to work for less would take their jobs. Do you see where this is going people? You have to have legal standards that are adhered to in any free market in order for it to be a free market and that includes the labor market! You talked about labor being ‘over-valued’. Over-valued at what standard? Mexico’s? What you are advocating is the devolution of the American worker. In the beginning of the 20th century, we had a lot of labor abuses in this country, slave wages, child labor, poor working conditions and all that went with it. Through the years, Americans (h/t to the unions here), have fought for better pay, humane conditions and the result was the most prosperous working class on the planet. Even a non-high school graduate could get a good job, buy a house, and put their kids through college. What we are seeing now, is the reversal of that success. If Mexicans will live ten or twenty to a house in order to work for far less money, then they cut out Americans who need those jobs. What you are promoting is the idea that American workers should have to live at the same level of illegal immigrants or not work. Do you really want to go down that road? When Bank of America came out with this campaign a few years ago advertising that they wanted to give illegal aliens credit cards, they were embracing the anarchy. They had been giving home loans to them for years. I have many friends working in real estate out here who have told me that it was a bad idea to create the whole “No-Doc”loan program. A program that was specifically tailored to lend mortgage money to illegal aliens. This type of loan does not require you to show proof of your job or earnings. So what does an illegal have to lose? They took out these mortgages like crazy around here, they took out a home equity loan when the value went up in a year, then got HELOC’s and went crazy spending. When the bubble bursts, they’re walking away laughing whilst our politicians are trying to figure up a way for the American taxpayer to foot the bill! How stupid can you possibly be to give a credit card or a home loan to someone who you don’t even know for sure who they are? By the way, headline on Drudge today, “Bank of America Net Income Falls 77% on Writedownsâ€
I live in San Diego. The construction industry here is almost entirely Mexican labor. Contractors pick them up at street corners and pay them forty or fifty bucks and the end of the day and drop them off. They pay no taxes except sales taxes on what they buy. By the way, the “underground economy”is now just the economy. I have seen one U-haul after another get loaded up by friends of mine who were roofers, dry-wallers, painters, carpet layers, cabinet makers, plumbers, electricians, who had enough and had to pack up and leave the state because they couldn’t compete with contractors using illegal labor. Again, free markets are only free if they are law abiding.
I was in Tucson recently visiting my mother. I went to one of those drive through car washes where they dry your car off by hand. What I saw stunned me. A young black kid took my money and three white teenagers, one girl and two boys came out and dried off my car. Why was I surprised? I’ve been living in the southwest for seventeen years now and I have only seen Mexicans drying cars. In Arizona, they recently passed a law to stop illegals from working with the threat of the business owners license. All of a sudden, these are jobs Americans will do! Imagine that. I picked fruit as a kid in Michigan, my ex-wife worked in a poultry plant. These are not jobs Americans won’t do, they just won’t do them for illegal wages. Now that a lot of Mexicans are leaving Arizona and returning to the Sonoran Province, Mexicans are crying foul because they don’t want to deal with their own damn people!
Sanctuary policies only benefit gang members. Why? Because the idea that someone is going to turn in a gang-banger for any crime at all because they are not afraid of being deported is just plain stupid. The public is much more afraid of being killed by the gang than they are of the cops. The net result is the gangs control the neighborhoods with immunity. This is beside the fact that prosecutors openly declaring policies that they will not enforce laws they don’t like takes us further down that road of accepting individual anarchy in government.
Is race a factor in this debate? You betcha, just ask La Raza. That’s “The Race”translated for those of you who don’t live ten minutes from the Mexican border like I do. There is an awful lot of racial animosity in Hispanics toward us gringos. My twelve year old nephew had to be taken out of his school in Tucson and home schooled because the school he was in was about 85% Mexicans who started fights with him every day because he was the only white kid in his class. His mom walked him out of that school in tears while those sweet little Mexican b***ards taunted him in Spanish as he walked away. He will never ever forget that. He’s thirteen now and already has a deep hatred of Hispanics. A lot of Hispanics in the southwest do buy into the MecHa Aztlan philosophy and they don’t believe us gringos belong here, they want us out. Google it.
The problem with illegal immigration in America is that there is such a large number of Mexicans ignoring our border and squatting in the US is that it is causing the merging of two very large, very different populations and cultures. Have any of you been to Mexico? It’s got some nice hotels and some decent places by the beach but all in all, it is a drug ridden, crime ridden, lawless craphole. They don’t speak the same language, have the same values, or even drive like we do. When they come up here, they don’t change. One morning last month I woke up at seven in the morning and the radio news was on. Three pedestrians had been run over and killed in ONE HOUR already this morning. The news doesn’t tell you who did it but you already know. Hit and run is epidemic in San Diego. It happens almost every day. Even the bravest soles I know here don’t go down there anymore for fear of their life. Kidnapping Americans for ransom is sport down there. They even come across the border to do it and take their victims back to mexico. Mexico is open Anarchy and that’s why it is such an awful place to live. What our pro-illegal folks seem to be doing is accepting that anarchic lifestyle here in the US in some misguided sympathy to the Mexican illegals. If they really wanted to help them, they would send them all home and make them clean up their own mess at home. But they don’t want to go home. It’s easier to come here and bleed the system.
#83 HCH,
Agreed, you have to take some of what I say on faith – private conversations were not recorded… however you do not have to take my word alone. Google is your friend.
#84 HCH,
Are you really comparing Canada’s law enforcement agencies to those of Mexico?
Are you really comparing Canada’s stance on border security to that of Mexico?
Are you really comparing Canada’s friendship to the US to that of Mexico?
Unbelieveable!
HCH,
Please read and respond to #79.
HCH,
Please also answer the questions I posed to you in #68
HCH,
Feel free to also answer the question I posed to AJStrata in #80
I have always been more afraid of Canada than Mexico and time and time again people tell me that I’m wrong. But one only has to remember that the Y2K bomber was going to LA by way of Canada and it wasn’t Clintons ‘security’ that stopped him but an observant border guard.
There is also an Indian reservation in upstate NY that is suspect in transporting immigrants. It borders Canada and is exempt from many federal laws by way of it’s being an Indian reservation. Last I heard it was mostly contraband being smuggled through (i.e., cigarettes, liquor) but for a price…one never knows.
Bikerke-Thanks so very much for that most informative piece!
Bikerken,
^:)^ ^:)^ ^:)^ <:-p
THANK YOU! Anyone who actually lives along the border knows that what you say is 100% true!!
#90 BonBon,
Not living where you do, it would be out of line for me to comment on your situation – other than to say I support border security for our entire country.
There are confirmed instances of people from “countries of interest” (from places like Iran, Pakistan, etc) crossing our southern border. I believe the number is 9,000/yr – those of course, are only the ones who are CAUGHT.
How much news to you receive regarding the happenings along our southern border?
I haven’t read any articles about Canadian military crossing into the US, accompanying drug loads. Nor have I read about BP or National Guard units being run off by armed men. It happens here. Does it happen there?
HCH?
:-w :-w
You’re welcome Pam. By the way,you hit the nail on the head when you asked, “A pathway to citizenship..who says the 10-12 million actually want it?” The dirty little secret is, THEY DON’T WANT IT! They simply want to be able to stay here and get the law off their back. And co-incidently, that is exactly the effect that the passage of the ‘Comprehensive’ immigration bill would have had. It takes a citizen of the US months to get a passport. What makes anyone think they could process millions of people with questionable or no identification in any amount of time at all. The answer is that they really know it can’t be done, but once you get the amnesty part in effect, the same politicians who extolled the virtues about documenting them out of the shadows will say, oh well, that’s not going to work, but we’ll keep the amnesty. Think of this, if you were a criminal, wouldn’t you want to live in a place that did not even know who you were? Even if you get caught, you can change identities like most people change shoes. As a side note, my nephew who had to leave school, has already had his social security number stolen so many times, they had to issue him a new SSN, he’s thirteen. They figured it was probably stolen from his school, since that’s the only place where he ever had to give it.
Another note to Fluffy, I know what you mean about the Open borders Nazis in the Republican party rigging elections. How do you think we ended up with McCain as a nominee. In CA50 (Northern San Diego district) we had Brian Bilbray (R) running against Ruth Busby (D). Four days before the election, someone sent one of the local djays a tape they recorded at a Busby townhall meeting in Escondido. The press was not invited to the meeting and all the signs and flyers for in were in spanish. There were a couple of hundred illegals there asking her about voting. One guy said in spanish that he didn’t have papers. Her response was, and I’m quoting, “You don’t need papers to vote.” She was out there recruiting illegals to vote in our elections. She lost by about ten points. Bilbray is one of our best anti-illegal immigration voices in the house.
Pam,
I’ve just finished reading the comments on AJStrata’s blog. I can’t say that I also respect him. He comes across in his responses as an arrogant twit, imo.
Granted I don’t live in a border state and I don’t for a minute kid myself that things are bad OR that middle eastern terrorists couldn’t come through the southern border.
All I’m saying is that I believe the threat from the Canadian border is way understated.
Bikerken,
I suppose they do the same where you live… along the AZ border campaign signs for US offices were posted IN MEXICO during the last election.
I take it, you’re a biker?
BonBon,
RAISE A RACKET, PLEASE!!
Bikerken-
The illegals aren’t stupid, they know that there are 12 million waiting to take their place.
Fluffy and Bon Bon- We have Dearbornistan over by Detroit..I would guess that there is an illegal or two from areas other than the south!