Wow!

11 Responses to “50 Bullets Later, NYC Cops Acquitted”

1. Robert
   April 25, 2008 - 09:56 AM on April 25th, 2008

   I don’t know the details of the case, and I am sure there is much. much more to it that the MSM has reported. But just on the surface, Bell being killed on his wedding day then turning out to be unarmed, makes me think it is a horrible tragedy for all involved. The kind of thing as a Law Enforcement officer you hope you never get caught up in for many reasons.

2. Pam
   April 25, 2008 - 10:04 AM on April 25th, 2008

   I have followed the case and must say that I’m not surprised they were acquitted, but I would hope that IA has some disciplanary action in store, or at the very least, some re-training. It was an undercover operation gone wrong. 50 bullets is excessive imo and the shots recovered in some cases looked as if they handed me the gun and blindfolded me..

3. Robert
   April 25, 2008 - 11:03 AM on April 25th, 2008

   Yeah, the one officer fired 31 rounds. That seems very excessive, again I wasn’t there, but it just doesn’t sound right.

4. FrmrArtyOffcr
   April 25, 2008 - 09:20 PM on April 25th, 2008

   The problem is that the weapons issued to the NYPD are specifically set with absurdly heavy trigger pulls as a means to prevent the officers from shooting themselves accidently as happened a few times after the Glocks were issued initially before the new, “safer” triggers were installed. Instead of just training the officers to keep their fingers (AND EVERYTHING ELSE) out of the trigger guards until they were ready to fire, NYPD had the pistols retrofitted with much heavier weight trigger pulls. This combined with the LONG trigger pulls on the Glocks resulted in officers firing far more rounds than a properly equipped and trained officer might otherwise need to fire. Additionally, because of the possibility of perpetrators having body armor or hidden weapons, many departments train their officers to fire until the threat is neutralized. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing as much as when the adrenaline is pumping, the rate of fire may be quite high with hit probability being quite low. At the ranges involved, it’s completely possible to fire 3-5 rounds before realizing what effect the first one or two have had. And when there is the possibility that the target might be intent on firing back, the desire to even check to see if the first round impacted effectively is pretty low. There is also the natural human reaction to want to fire until the weapon runs dry. This is a psychological thing and has been documented numerous times in police involved shootings.

   What needs to be looked at includes how many rounds actually hit their target. If officers were on both sides of the car and firing, the officers might have actually mistaken rounds fired by other officers as coming from inside the car. A standard 9mm full metal jacketed round like the military uses will traverse the entire width of a car and exit the opposite side. This could’ve left officers reacting to what in the dark would’ve appeared to be rounds fired from inside the car.

   In the shooting in 1999, the African immigrant who was shot at 41 times was hit less than 10 times with bullet wounds running from his foot to his head. Police officers who don’t practice (and many big city officers have little to no firearms experience before joining the force) frequently have trouble firing accurately when under stress.

5. Pam
   April 25, 2008 - 10:07 PM on April 25th, 2008

   Here are some of the photos used at the trial

6. FrmrArtyOffcr
   April 26, 2008 - 12:33 PM on April 26th, 2008

   Lots of pictures, but few of them of any real use in a trial.

   His having a fiancee, inconsequential.
   Al Sharpton opening his big yap, inconsequential.
   Him being buried, inconsequential.
   The mob on the street, inconsequential
   The idiots with the signs, inconsequential.

   None of that had a damn thing to do with what happened that night. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a tragedy. It’s a tragedy for everyone involved but the continual attempts to punish police officers who have to make split second decisions with only limited or faulty information does nothing to make this a safer country to live in. Quite the opposite. Officers get so afraid of using their guns that they hesitate to draw them even when they should. Criminals get so brazen that they defy commands because they know that the police are more worried about the consequences of shooting them than about catching them. Look at what has happened on the border since they locked up Ramos and Campeon on charges of shooting a convicted drug smuggler. A drug smuggler who is currently sitting in prison himself. Do you know what one of the best tools a police officer can get to get a criminal to obey commands? A DOG. Why? Because the criminals are deathly afraid of what a 45 lb Belgian Malenois will do to them. I’d prefer a 145 lb Alsatian (German Shepherd) but they eat a lot more than the smaller dog while the smaller dog is just as effective. They just arrested a man in Phoenix for chasing down and shooting someone who had been trying to steal his car. The citizenry are wanting to give him a medal.

7. Robert
   April 26, 2008 - 05:05 PM on April 26th, 2008

   “What needs to be looked at includes how many rounds actually hit their target. If officers were on both sides of the car and firing, the officers might have actually mistaken rounds fired by other officers as coming from inside the car.”

   That’s what I was thinking. The officers likely thought the other side was shooting too.

8. FrmrArtyOffcr
   April 27, 2008 - 11:58 PM on April 27th, 2008

   I’m not suprised that you had that thought Robert. We both have a background that involves the use of weapons. One of the first rules of gun safety is to not only know your target but also what’s behind it. High stress causes tunnel vision and intense focus, both of which lead to situations of fratricide (AKA the oxymoron referred to as “Friendly Fire”) in combat. Why would anyone think it doesn’t happen in police shootouts?

9. Robert
   April 28, 2008 - 02:32 AM on April 28th, 2008

   FAO I think we have a lot in common. For starters, ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms). I like an occasional cold beer and wine with a nice dinner. I like a good cigar now and then too. And I have used firearms the way a carpenter uses a circular saw for 30 years.

   Very, very politically incorrect!

10. snowy egret
    April 29, 2008 - 11:55 PM on April 29th, 2008

    The L.A. riots over the RODNEY KING incedent was the fualt of the liberal left-wing news media they lied and edited the rodney king film its those no good journalists who are to blame as well as those rioting thugs

11. Robert
    April 30, 2008 - 01:20 AM on April 30th, 2008

    I remember the Rodney King riots well. I spent the night in San Francisco after responding to a call for mutual aid from SFPD.

    The news was filled with reports of looting and street violence. There were reports of white people stopped in their cars at intersections being dragged out and beaten.

    My dream was to be patrolling on foot, come around the corner, and happen upon such a scene just as the thugs were putting their hands on their victims. No cameras, no “journalists”, just me and them. Justice would have been enacted right then and there. No paperwork, no courts necessary.

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