Breaking: California Supreme Court legalizes gay marriage
Here’s the opinion. 172 pages for you to review!AP:
Read this useful bullet-point background from the Journal to get up to speed on the legal posture. Note that six of the seven justices on the court are Republicans. Will the ruling stick?
Proposition 22, the California ballot initiative that defined marriage in the state as between one man and one woman (even if the marriage was entered into in another state that allows same-sex marriage), passed in 2000 by a margin of 1.7 million votes.
A quick skim reveals that the opinion’s fairly straightforward. They start out by noting that California’s different from other states that have dealt with this insofar as it already has a robust domestic partnership law. All this is about, really, is whether gays should be allowed to “marry” the way straights do or whether they’re stuck with those partnership agreements that leave them married in effect but not in name. Conservatives like partnership schemes and/or civil unions as an alternative to gay marriage, but I’ve always thought that argument’s self-defeating since it leaves you with no substantive reason for drawing any distinction in the first place. Yes, (some) conservatives seem to be saying, gays can go ahead and have civil unions that grant them all the benefits married couples have ” but for god’s sake, don’t let them call themselves “married.” To which a court can only reply, “Why not?” The right’s strategy, in other words, has been to concede 99 yards and then stand on the one-yard line and say “no further,” but that’s not how discrimination jurisprudence works. If you’re going to discriminate you need a good reason, and depending upon whom you’re discriminating against, you may need a very, very good reason.
That’s actually the key ruling here: The court holds on page 95 that because sexual orientation is (1) immutable, (2) unrelated to one’s ability to function in society, and (3) a target of prejudice, it should be treated as a “suspect classification” for purposes of the state constitution’s equal protection clause. Once it’s deemed a suspect classification then the state needs a very compelling reason to justify discriminating on the basis of it ” and since, as I say, it’s already conceded those 99 yards, there’s no such reason to be had. (If you want to bore yourself with the vagaries of equal protection jurisprudence, read this old post about New Jersey’s gay marriage ruling.) All they’re doing is denying gays the label of marriage to preserve a sense of stigma, which is almost a paradigm case of what equal protection is meant to prevent. I have no problem with the ruling as long as other states aren’t compelled to recognize Cali marriages per full faith and credit, which, needless to say, is the battleground on which this decision’s going to be fought in the presidential race. Taking the federalist approach and letting each state decide for itself is an easy call for Maverick; what about the Prince of Peace?
Trackposted to <a href=”http://thevirtuousrepublic.com/?p=686″>The Virtuous Republic</a>, <a href=”http://rosemarysthoughts.blogspot.com/2008/05/too-tired.html”>Rosemary’s Thoughts</a>, <a href=”http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2008/05/terror-alert.html”>Right Truth</a>, <a href=”http://koderas-korner.blogspot.com/2008/05/gaying-to-chapel.html”>Kodera’s Korner</a>, <a href=”http://www.oblogatoryanecdotes.com/2008/05/weekend-open-trackbacks-515-18.html”>Oblogatory Anecdotes</a>, <a href=”http://caosblog.com/7836″>Cao’s Blog</a>, <a href=”http://www.dequalss.com/wp/2008/05/16/fake-mosque-used-in-training-drill-cair-pissed/”>Democrat=Socialist</a>, <a href=”http://www.conservativecat.com”>Conservative Cat</a>, <a href=”http://www.themadpigeon.com/diary_of_the_mad_pigeon/2008/05/thursday-open-2.html”>Diary of the Mad Pigeon</a>, <a href=”http://faultlineusa.blogspot.com/2008/05/its-either-mccain-or.html”>Faultline USA</a>, <a href=”http://www.thirdworldcounty.us/?p=3509″>third world county</a>, <a href=”http://nukegingrich.wordpress.com/2008/05/16/good-for-your-heart/”>Nuke Gingrich</a>, <a href=”http://www.womanhonorthyself.com/?p=5021″>Woman Honor Thyself</a>, <a href=”http://mccainblogs.com/2008/05/16/mccaniac-weekend-linkfest-sticky-post-516-518/”>McCain Blogs</a>, <a href=”http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/?p=1412″>The World According to Carl</a>, <a href=”http://www.thepiratescove.us/2008/05/16/avast-weekend-pirate-linkfest-516-518/”>Pirate’s Cove</a>, <a href=”http://thepinkflamingo.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2008/5/16/3694424.html”>The Pink Flamingo</a>, <a href=”http://www.anewtone.com/2008/05/its-never-enough-for-liberals.html”></a>, <a href=”http://sports.outsidethebeltway.com/2008/05/oscar-pistorius-double-amputee-olympic-sprinter/”>OTB Sports</a>, and <a href=”http://www.yankeesailor.us/?p=759″>The Yankee Sailor</a>, thanks to <a href=”http://www.linkfests.us”>Linkfest Haven Deluxe</a>.<a href=”http://www.linkfests.us/”><img src=”http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/307/106/320/linkfest.jpg” alt=”Linkfest Haven, the Blogger’s Oasis” /></a> Weekend Open Trackbacks 5/15-18
May 16, 2008 - 05:00 PM on May 16th, 2008
[...] All Spin Zone wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerpt Here’s the opinion. 172 pages for you to review!AP: Read this useful bullet-point background from the Journal to get up to speed on the legal posture. Note that six of the seven justices on the court are Republicans. Will the ruling stick? Proposition 22, the California ballot initiative that defined marriage in the state as between one man and one woman (even if the marriage was entered into in another state that allows same-sex marriage), passed in 2000 by a margin of 1.7 million votes. A [...]
May 16, 2008 - 05:06 PM on May 16th, 2008
[...] Top Videos wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerpt Here’s the opinion. 172 pages for you to review!AP: Read this useful bullet-point background from the Journal to get up to speed on the legal posture. Note that six of the seven justices on the court are Republicans. Will the ruling stick? Proposition 22, the California ballot initiative that defined marriage in the state as between one man and one woman (even if the marriage was entered into in another state that allows same-sex marriage), passed in 2000 by a margin of 1.7 million votes. A [...]
May 16, 2008 - 05:23 PM on May 16th, 2008
Boehner’s Letter to Pelosi
At least one Republican hasn’t lost their mind. Republican John Boehner of Ohio wrote a letter to House Speaker Pelosi, pointing out that suspending shipments to Strategic Petroleum Reserve will only lower gas prices by a few cents.
He asks her t…
May 16, 2008 - 06:07 PM on May 16th, 2008
More Proof Barack Obama Is A Lying Sack
Let’s look at this statement from the words of the false messiah, Barack Obama. And back during his “No Surrender” tour, John McCain said anyone who wants to end the war in Iraq responsibly wants to surrender; he even said…
May 16, 2008 - 06:17 PM on May 16th, 2008
More Assaults On Christian Institutions In Gaza
Once again, the followers of the so-called Religion of Peace show their respect for the Religion of the Prince of Peace. Unknown assailants detonated a bomb outside a Christian school in Gaza City before dawn Friday, causing no injuries. The…
May 16, 2008 - 06:34 PM on May 16th, 2008
Seattle Times Defends Hitler’s Aggression!
Could you imagine the outrage if FOXNews or some conservative pundit wrote this column about how Hitler’s demands and actions prior to the spring of 1939 were not outrageous? Will the Left denounce this post by editorialist Bruce Ramsey? Will…
May 16, 2008 - 10:46 PM on May 16th, 2008
PATIENT EVIL - An R.J. Godlewski / Right Truth Blog Exclusive - Chapter Four
PATIENT EVIL An R.J. Godlewski and Right Truth Blog Exclusive eBook Chapter Four May, 20xx Room LL35-35, The Pentagon Washington, D.C. Jonas Prinkler hated cockroaches; particularly the big, juicy specimens that reminded him of his ex-wife. Still, he a…
May 16, 2008 - 11:15 PM on May 16th, 2008
When Did “Conservative”Mean Goose-Stepping Loss of Individuality?
MOVEMENT CONSERVATIVESYesterday evening I finally realized one of the problems bothering me when it comes to today’s non-Republican conservatives. How about a quote from Ann Coulter: “:And I think what happened today demonstrates that the movemen…
May 17, 2008 - 09:35 AM on May 17th, 2008
Care to Flip Virtual Burgers?
My Virtual Summer Job - Alexandra Alter, The Wall Street Journal While his friends scramble for jobs flipping burgers or bagging groceries this summer, 18-year-old Mike Everest will be working as a trader in the fantasy Web world of Entropia
May 17, 2008 - 10:28 AM on May 17th, 2008
PROOF THE LEFT IS RETARDED
Don’t know why I’m sharing this, it’s got to be the dumbest thing I’ve read today.
Organizations intending to march on the Democratic National Convention when it is held here in August are suing the U.S. Secret Service and the C…
May 17, 2008 - 01:11 PM on May 17th, 2008
I’d hate to say to my friends here that I told you so, but…
May 17, 2008 - 01:51 PM on May 17th, 2008
Even “Ahnold” supports the decision. Go figure.
May 17, 2008 - 03:41 PM on May 17th, 2008
Open Trackbacks
Here is an easy way to get a link with open trackbacks . This can help you improve your Technorati rankings.
You can trackback on any subject and I will make sure you get a link to your site.
Trackback URL
http://haloscan.com/tb/brutus1964...
May 17, 2008 - 04:49 PM on May 17th, 2008
SFL and Eben. The issue here is not that gay marriage should or should not be but rather four judges do NOT have the right to supercede a majority decision by the citizens of the state of California. It simply does not work that way in a democracy.
I’m assuming you both approve of having a democracy where the majority rules?
May 17, 2008 - 05:14 PM on May 17th, 2008
“I’m assuming you both approve of having a democracy where the majority rules”
———-
And I would assume that you approve of Checks and Balances on laws passed by state or federal governments, no?
May 17, 2008 - 05:52 PM on May 17th, 2008
[...] county, Nuke Gingrich, McCain Blogs, Woman Honor Thyself, Pirate’s Cove, The Pink Flamingo, , Right Voices, and The Yankee Sailor. Also thanks to Linkfest Haven [...]
May 17, 2008 - 06:06 PM on May 17th, 2008
I believe there should be checks and balances and I also think there are not enough from our politicians in Washington. However, I don’t believe it’s the job of the judiciary to make laws. Their job is only to uphold them.
The will of the people is what makes our society work. The minority has to concede to the majority in the rule of law.
May 17, 2008 - 06:31 PM on May 17th, 2008
#11
Oh yeah they do when BonBon.
Think of it like putting integration up for popular vote in the segregated South in the mid-60s. Blacks would still be sitting at the back of the bus and drinking from separate water fountains.
Certain things cannot be left to voters whose religious bias has no place in the equal rights of ALL Americans.
I hope that clarifies things for you.
May 17, 2008 - 06:35 PM on May 17th, 2008
13-
“The will of the people is what makes our society work. The minority has to concede to the majority in the rule of law.”
When the will of the people is based in religous misconception that impedes and would serve to deny decent Americans the same rights you take for granted it’s the DUTY of the State Supreme Court to expunge religious bias from polluting our country’s Constitution.
I’m sorry BonBon but Joe bigot in his single-wide dressed in his stained t-shirt doesn’t get to decide who I marry. End of topic.
May 17, 2008 - 07:15 PM on May 17th, 2008
“However, I don’t believe it’s the job of the judiciary to make laws. Their job is only to uphold them.”
———-
…AND…most relevant to this particular issue; their DUTY to VOID laws when they are unconstitutional.
(!)
This is a very basic American government/legal concept.
Checks and balances.
May 17, 2008 - 08:35 PM on May 17th, 2008
18- Being black is not a choice Eben.
11 states banned same sex marriage in November of 2004 and they weren’t all religious states that you so despise. Many Democrats went to the polls and voted for the ban. Each ban was Constitutional.
May 8, 2008
Michigan Supreme Court Upholds Ban on Same-Sex Benefits
The Michigan Supreme Court has upheld a lower-court ruling that Michigan’s public universities and other government agencies may not extend employee benefits to a worker’s same-sex partner.
The Supreme Court, in a 5-to-2 decision released on Wednesday, ruled that Michigan’s constitutional ban on gay marriage also covers employee benefits. Recognition of domestic partnerships is considered no different than marriage, the court said.
It’s unclear what effect the ruling may have on Michigan’s state employees because many public agencies have changed their benefits policies to include unmarried individuals living together but not legally related, the Detroit Free Press reported today.
May 17, 2008 - 08:58 PM on May 17th, 2008
[...] county, Nuke Gingrich, Woman Honor Thyself, McCain Blogs, Pirate’s Cove, The Pink Flamingo, , Right Voices, The Yankee Sailor, and OTB Sports. Also thanks to Linkfest Haven [...]
May 17, 2008 - 09:15 PM on May 17th, 2008
There is Nothing Wrong With Being A Conservative or a Republican
SEPARATING CONSERVATIVES & REPUBLICANSI am known as a cynical, conservative “hating” witch with a “B”. It is true, I no longer trust anything with a “conservative brand”. I am am angry with these people for having infiltrated and …
May 17, 2008 - 09:46 PM on May 17th, 2008
PATIENT EVIL - An R.J. Godlewski / Right Truth Blog Exclusive - Chapter Five
PATIENT EVIL An R.J. Godlewski and Right Truth Blog Exclusive eBook Chapter Five Room LL35-36, The Pentagon Seth Carmassi chewed on his lower lip as he gazed upon the ramshackle office. After twenty-five years of chasing terrorists all over God’s
May 18, 2008 - 08:08 AM on May 18th, 2008
The Year of Our Discontent
photo credit: rauchdicksonÂ
Podcast Show Notes
48% of all voters and 76% of Republicans coupled with 55% of Independents are dissatisfied with the choices for President.
Giving tax rebates to a city that doesn’t pay taxes and a non-profit tha…
May 18, 2008 - 08:08 AM on May 18th, 2008
The Year of Our Discontent
photo credit: rauchdicksonÂ
Podcast Show Notes
48% of all voters and 76% of Republicans coupled with 55% of Independents are dissatisfied with the choices for President.
Giving tax rebates to a city that doesn’t pay taxes and a non-profit tha…
May 18, 2008 - 08:08 AM on May 18th, 2008
The Year of Our Discontent
photo credit: rauchdicksonÂ
Podcast Show Notes
48% of all voters and 76% of Republicans coupled with 55% of Independents are dissatisfied with the choices for President.
Giving tax rebates to a city that doesn’t pay taxes and a non-profit tha…
May 18, 2008 - 08:08 AM on May 18th, 2008
The Year of Our Discontent
photo credit: rauchdicksonÂ
Podcast Show Notes
48% of all voters and 76% of Republicans coupled with 55% of Independents are dissatisfied with the choices for President.
Giving tax rebates to a city that doesn’t pay taxes and a non-profit tha…
May 18, 2008 - 10:11 AM on May 18th, 2008
I,ll bet the demacrooks will want these four crinimal judges in the U.S. SUPREUM COURT
May 18, 2008 - 02:00 PM on May 18th, 2008
John McCain’s New Ad
A VERY VERY VERY OLD CANDIDATE I stole this from Outside the Beltway. The thing about the cat is interesting. Speaking of which, my mother called me late last night. A friend, who was visiting yesterday evening told her that she can …
May 18, 2008 - 02:37 PM on May 18th, 2008
18- Being black is not a choice Eben.
Newsflash Pam; neither is being gay no matter what you prefer to think.
You tell me when you “chose”(date, time, and age) to be heterosexual. See? Easy.
All religious intolerance to same sex marriage is Christian or funamentalist relition-based. It’s contrary to the very foundations of the structure of our Constitution. That’s why it keeps getting called “UNCONSTITUIONAL”.
Leave your own particular spoon-fed prejudices out of it Pam.
May 18, 2008 - 02:39 PM on May 18th, 2008
REPUBLICAN LEADERS MUST RESIGN
From Richard A. Viguerie’s Conservative HQ;
“Republicans are doomed to wander in the political wilderness until this generation of weak-kneed, no-vision, inarticulate, afraid-of-the-liberal-media politicians are replaced with principled conserv…
May 18, 2008 - 02:39 PM on May 18th, 2008
#30
Restate:
all INTOLERANCE toward same sex marriage has Christian or fundamentalist religion at its core.
May 18, 2008 - 02:47 PM on May 18th, 2008
There is no such thing as gay “marriage”. “Marriage” has no definition outside the context of religion.
The proper term is gay union.
May 18, 2008 - 02:54 PM on May 18th, 2008
Pam I think yer being called a “Homophobe”.
May 18, 2008 - 03:41 PM on May 18th, 2008
#32-
“There is no such thing as gay “marriageâ€. “Marriage”has no definition outside the context of religion.”
Prove that permise.
Religion has no patent on the word. What is it that threatens you so about gay people having the precise access to the word and designation as you Robbie?
You, Robert, are mistaken.
And as for Pammie. Only she know what lies in her heart.
May 18, 2008 - 03:42 PM on May 18th, 2008
** premise
May 18, 2008 - 04:11 PM on May 18th, 2008
Eben- A person choses to have a sex change. A person choses to be gay. That is quite different from being born a black person. And that is why same sex marriage bans are not being over-turned in the states. CA will be over-ruled on this one.
My name is Pam and Robert is named Robert. Either stay mature in the conversation or leave.
You seem to always want to compare the struggle of the homosexual to that of the black race Eben, and it is a silly comparison. Blacks have had a far greater struggle than that of the gays. You seem to think that blacks need to accept you because you are gay, as you described your situation with your black neighbors. As I told you before, it isn’t your homosexuality they dislike, it is you and your attitude that tends to make people despise you. You demand acceptance from society, yet that society you demand it from is comprised of the very people you so despise, that being anyone that is religious.
May 18, 2008 - 04:42 PM on May 18th, 2008
Hey Pam?
You still haven’t told me when you “chose” to be heterosexual. You didn’t did you? Can’t quite figure that one out can you.
My homosexuality no more defines me than you heterosexuality does you. I did not choose any more than you chose whatever or whoever you deign to sleep with. What about me being born homosexual screws with your sense of the natural order of things so Pam? Hmmm? There is no shortage of heterosexuals to people this planet with another generation of bigots and judgmental sheep.
When you have the audacity to call my sexual orientation a “choice” all bets are off… so I’ll call you as I see you. This place is known for it’s unkindness and mockery of anything but the fading “Religious Right” (self-proclaimed) so don’t go getting all righteous on my gay ass.
Further: The comparison of blacks (slavery is sanctioned far more often in the Old Testament than the few vague references to homosexuality) to the plight of the homosexual today is on target and infinitely comparable. So it’s anything but ’silly’.
You have no idea what my black neighbors like or dislike.
Most of them are disfunctional heterosexuals without benefit of marriage, with numerous children by various fathers sucking off the teat of the welfare system we (I suspect this includes you) pay into. I have less and less respect by the day.
But THEY are heterosexuals so it’s cool yes? Horse doody.
However the parallel to the struggles and won skirmishes of gay folks in this new century directly correlates to the struggle for inclusion for blacks in the 1960s. Why would that offend you so? I know! I know!! RELIGION.
Keep your religion out of my bedroom.
You see Pam? Beneath your attempt at exhalted above-board rhetoric may just be what Robert called you the beating heart of a ‘HOMOPHOBE’. Not that I really give to shits.
And do not presuppose my take on religion generally. It’s the few who ruin it for the many. I’m clear as crystal on that one.
May 18, 2008 - 04:42 PM on May 18th, 2008
**two
May 18, 2008 - 05:23 PM on May 18th, 2008
I can chose to have sex with another female Eben. I chose to be heterosexual.
As I have said in previous conversations with you, I am all for the rights of gays to have the same legal benefits as that which my husband and I have.
I can only go by what you have shared about your black neighbors and I can use your words against you…
That public teat is available to lesbians that have children, as it is not based upon one sexuality or race, but upon ones family situation. Yes, we pay too much and it needs to be stopped, but that has nothing to do with homosexuality.
Where did you get that I was offended by gay rights? I am astonished that you think that this country cares even a tenth of what they did for the civil rights struggle of the blacks. Most people yawn or shrug their shoulders as if to say who cares when you bring up the struggle of gays. It is not a civil rights issue, nor is it comparable to the 1960’s.
May 18, 2008 - 05:42 PM on May 18th, 2008
“A person choses to have a sex change.”
————
Pam, can you even possibly imagine why someone would chose to do that?
Is it possible for you to close your eyes and try to imagine what kind of lives - often secretive and miserable - these people have led, most since before adolesence, that would lead them to make such a drastic physical/social change?
I’ll bet a dollar you do not know, personally, anyone who has ever had a sex change.
You do not know what you are talking about on this one.
————————————-
“A person choses to be gay.”
————
No, they do not.
Simply ask any gay person you meet that question, repeatedly to as many of them as you can, and you will quickly realize just how fucking stupid that notion is.
Again, no offense, but…come on. Take those bigoted blinders off and you will see the truth of the matter.
And further more, I believe the current civil rights/social acceptance struggle of LGBT crowd is very comparable to the racial struggles of past decades.
Both struggles, at their fundamental core, are about the same things: Acceptance in society. To be treated exactly the same. To have the same things that others have.
Opposition to this acceptance is bigotry, pure and simple.
Bigotry: stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s own.
Who really wants to be a bigot, in todays world?? Not you guys, I hope.
May 18, 2008 - 05:44 PM on May 18th, 2008
“I can chose to have sex with another female Eben.”
———–
Ok, but can you choose to be ATTRACTED to another female???
THAT is the differene.
(!)
May 18, 2008 - 05:46 PM on May 18th, 2008
“Most people yawn or shrug their shoulders as if to say who cares when you bring up the struggle of gays.”
————-
Yes, EXACTLY like they did for nearly 100 years after the civil war, regarding the struggle of blacks in America, before they were made to pay attention by the media showing what was really happening in the south. (!)
You’re not making the connection, when it’s right in front of you. Dig a bit deeper.
May 18, 2008 - 06:11 PM on May 18th, 2008
SFL- define attracted. Hookers have sex but are they attracted to all the people that they sleep with? Hookers and porn stars perform same sex acts for money.
SFL,you chose to live in a homosexual community, the gayest area of our country, so I would guess that your view is somewhat skewed by the fact that you aren’t in contact with too many people that will verbalize their true feelings.
There isn’t anything bigoted about my feelings. My feelings are that gays chose their lifestyle. It doesn’t give me reason to hate them. They are choosing to live their life the way they do. As I said, give gay couple the same legal benefits that are afforded to my husband and myself. What I find interesting about the gay friends and relatives that I have is that all, not some, have had a history of molestation/abuse as a child. Please don’t lecture about intolerance and bigotry when you then turn around and demonise religious people. The struggle of the LGBT sect of our society is nothing compared to the civil rights movement of the 19th and 20th century. Blacks were denied access to schools, bathrooms, seats on buses, enterance to public establishments, denied access to public schools that whites attended, were kept as slaves, etc., none of which is true of the homosexual community.
May 18, 2008 - 06:17 PM on May 18th, 2008
44- No, on the contrary, the majority in this country wanted the blacks to have equality. Many more states had already “accepted” them by the time the Civil Rights Act had passed.
May 18, 2008 - 06:44 PM on May 18th, 2008
“Beneath your attempt at exhalted above-board rhetoric may just be what Robert called you the beating heart of a ‘HOMOPHOBE’. Not that I really give to shits.”
Eben, you are delirious. I pointed out that you, in so many words, called Pam a homophobe.
I’ll make my argument even more empirical. There is no such thing as gay or same-sex marriage, because marriage is defined as between a man and a woman.
Any attempt to redefine it otherwise is activist.
May 18, 2008 - 06:44 PM on May 18th, 2008
#46 “the blacks”??
#45 ”
My feelings are that gays chose their lifestyle. It doesn’t give me reason to hate them.”
Oh very generous.
When again did you “chose” to be attracted to men precisely?
#43 “Ok, but can you choose to be ATTRACTED to another female???
THAT is the differene.”
(!)
Indeed it is.
It’s like blowing smoke up their arses SF. They refuse to understand that being a homosexual is identical to being heterosexual. It defines us no more or less than their sexuality.
Yet should you ask Pam if she’d be able to “choose” to be attracted to another female she’d undoubtledly say “no”.
In that same way I cannot - nor am I inclined by design - to be attracted to the female of our species.
No harm done until people make it their business to move into our bedrooms with their notions that THEIR sexuality is valid and “right” where ours is not.
May 18, 2008 - 06:49 PM on May 18th, 2008
#41 -
“Where did you get that I was offended by gay rights? I am astonished that you think that this country cares even a tenth of what they did for the civil rights struggle of the blacks. Most people yawn or shrug their shoulders as if to say who cares when you bring up the struggle of gays. It is not a civil rights issue, nor is it comparable to the 1960’s.”
How very wrong you are.
I was beaten and left for dead by seven homophobes last September after they repeatedly called me “faggot” and I finally responded by saying “Shut the fuck up pencil dick”.
“Shrug their shoulders”? Do you live in a vacuum? Walk a mile in another’s shoes before you dismiss. It has a certain insidious audacity about which I’m sure was your intent as you wrote it.
http://www.GodHatesFags.com
May 18, 2008 - 06:52 PM on May 18th, 2008
41- “That public teat is available to lesbians that have children, as it is not based upon one sexuality or race, but upon ones family situation. Yes, we pay too much and it needs to be stopped, but that has nothing to do with homosexuality.”
It does when those bastards are accepted by this society simply for on the basis of sexual oreientation alone.
They can call me “faggot” but I’d be a dead man were I to respond with “nigger”.
May 18, 2008 - 07:18 PM on May 18th, 2008
“SFL- define attracted.”
————
You know damn well what I mean, Pam. Can you “choose” to be sexually attracted to a woman in the same way you are attracted to your husband or other men?
I think the answer would be a big “no”.
Gays do not “choose” to be gay any moe than you “choose” to be straight.
The only reason why you can’t see beyond this simple fact is because you, and many like you, are a bigot and a homophobe. You have been raised by family and society to belive a certain way and it is nearly impossible for you and people like you to rise above those beliefs.
The only possible hope for a betterment in your beliefs is if you were to become good friends with one or more gays, so that you may understand them and their lifestyles better.
When you talk about sex changes, and gays choosing to be gay, you demonstrate a complete lack of firsthand knowledge on the subject.
You say that living in SF skews my opinions on gay rights, but Pam it actually enhances them. The same that living in minority communities would enhance your knowledge of racial issues.
I have money on it that you don’t really know, personally, any LGBT folks.
Where do you get your information from? Have you considerd that it might be a bit, ohhh…one sided?
My advice? Get to know some gay people before you say more stupid shit that makes you look more unknowledgeable on the subject than you already are.
May 18, 2008 - 07:19 PM on May 18th, 2008
“SFL- define attracted.”
————
You know damn well what I mean, Pam. Can you “choose” to be sexually attracted to a woman in the same way you are attracted to your husband or other men?
I think the answer would be a big “no”.
Gays do not “choose” to be gay any moe than you “choose” to be straight.
The only reason why you can’t see beyond this simple fact is because you, and many like you, are a bigot and a homophobe. You have been raised by family and society to belive a certain way and it is nearly impossible for you and people like you to rise above those beliefs.
The only possible hope for a betterment in your beliefs is if you were to become good friends with one or more gays, so that you may understand them and their lifestyles better.
When you talk about sex changes, and gays choosing to be gay, you demonstrate a complete lack of firsthand knowledge on the subject.
You say that living in SF skews my opinions on gay rights, but Pam it actually enhances them. The same that living in minority communities would enhance your knowledge of racial issues.
I have money on it that you don’t really know, personally, any LGBT folks.
Where do you get your information from? Have you considerd that it might be a bit, ohhh…one sided?
My advice? Get to know some gay people before you say more stupid shit that makes you look more unknowledgeable on the subject than you already are.
May 18, 2008 - 08:10 PM on May 18th, 2008
SFL- my sisters-in-law are lesbians and I do have quite a few gay friends. It doesn’t change anything. I am not biggoted, nor an I a homophobe. As I have stated now for the third time in this thread, give gays the same legal rights as my husband I have. As I have stated, I have no reason to hate gays. Learn the definition of a word prior to using it.
How do you explain bi-sexuality because they are under the umbrella of GLBT
May 18, 2008 - 08:17 PM on May 18th, 2008
49-50 Eben- people are mugged on the street everyday, women raped and children molested. You as well as them are protected under the very same criminal laws, but, you as a homosexual are not afforded special laws.
Why would you lower yourself to calling a person a name such as nigger, if you yourself don’t appreciate being called a faggot? That freedom of speech can be a bitch sometimes.
May 18, 2008 - 08:39 PM on May 18th, 2008
“I am not biggoted, nor an I a homophobe.”
——————-
I’m sorry, but you are a text book definition of a bigot when it comes to homosexuality.
You cannot accept the simple FACT that gays do not choose to be gay.
Bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.
Bigot: is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false or not universally applicable or acceptable.
Ask your sisters-in-law if they “chose” to be sexually attracted to others of the same sex. Again, I’ll bet a dollar they say “no”.
Ask ANY gay person if they “choose” to be sexually attracted to someone of the same sex.
That’s nice that you believe in giving gay couples the same rights as married couples, but you are still advocating a seperate-but-equal kind of legal relationship. That has been proven to be wrong in the past, and is slowly but surely being proven again with gay rights.
May 18, 2008 - 11:12 PM on May 18th, 2008
OK, upon reflection, the above is a bit harsh…I don’t know you personally so I can’t really say you are actually a Bigot. But from what’s been written/posted on this topic it’s very, very hard to come up with a different conclusion.
That, or just plain ignorant on the issue. Not sure which one is worse.
May 19, 2008 - 06:55 AM on May 19th, 2008
..ignorant on the issue and since (like most repugs) it doesn’t affect her she cannot see it in the larger picture.
May 19, 2008 - 06:59 AM on May 19th, 2008
#54 Categorically mistaken.
Since it was a gaybashing the locals ignored the laws on the books and let me go with a massive concussion to my brain. The triage at my local hospital upon seeing me was aghast.
You haven’t a clue what you’re talking about.
My assault was hate motivated and as such the local authorities decided they wanted to shove my situation under the rug and allowed me to drive the two hours home (with no memory of said) rather than bring the paramedics to attend me.
The thought I’d just go away.
The laws apply selectively to you straight ones.
You have no firsthand experience in this Pam and you’re WAAAAAY out of your realm of knowledge of my own attack.
May 19, 2008 - 07:02 AM on May 19th, 2008
#54-
Actually there are “special laws” on the books in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts that are there ostensibly to afford victims of hate crimes extra protection.
The application of those laws when it applies to homosexuals as a minority is something else again in many cases because you see, like you, many in law enforcement bring their prejudices to the “table” as it were when acting upon those very laws.
You really need to know what you’re talking about before you spout untruthes.
May 19, 2008 - 07:03 AM on May 19th, 2008
#54-
Don’t recall saying I’d ever called anyone a “nigger”….
Please reread what I wrote.
Here are Eben’s words:
May 19, 2008 - 07:08 AM on May 19th, 2008
#53-
“How do you explain bi-sexuality because they are under the umbrella of GLBT”
I don’t “explain it”.
I think this myth of females being inclined more to bisexuality than men is preposterous. Men (speaking purely sexually) are more detached generally from their sexuality in my view. They don’t need to be in love to enjoy screwing.
This newly-created myth that two women and one man as a threesome is cool is utterly a manifestation of the age old
patriachal control of sexuality per se by what turns straight men on. The double standard of it all is an outrage to all thinking people. Yet I know high school girls and college girls who will indulge this imposed nonsense simply “to keep my boyfriend” when their distaste for having sex with another woman is equal to your own.
Be mindful that you do not relinquish all your control as you revel in that which was learned at the knee of a parent or some religionist. It was by intent that you think as you do.
May 19, 2008 - 07:19 AM on May 19th, 2008
58- So let me get this straight..You were assaulted and you ended up in the hospital and the cops did nothing to find the perpetrators? Or the cops didn’t file “hate crime” charges, which is what you wanted? Hate crimes legislation is a ridiculous thing to even entertain in our society. The problem is that there are people like you out there, with these big chips on their shoulders, that take advantage of their situations. Again you are back to it is a religious thing, and that just isn’t so. It’s a nice excuse for you, but it doesn’t really change the reality of the situation!
May 19, 2008 - 03:30 PM on May 19th, 2008
#62
Yes basically.
I’m pursuing as we speak with the Att. General’s Office. The cops let me go into the night with my head filled with fluid, dazed from concussion (I have ZERO memory), and (acc. to the police report) having heard me tell them I had an automobile in town and was intending on driving.
I do have a chip on my shoulder.
You would have too when people want you dead for no good reason and the powers that be do not abide by the laws on the hate crime books.
It is religious in basis.
Every time someone like you say a gay person chooses to be gay its a direct result of being indoctrinated into believing that love is one dimensional and has more to do with plumbing than what’s in the heart.
May 19, 2008 - 03:34 PM on May 19th, 2008
btw?
It was only upon awaking nearly twenty-four hours later in my blood-soaked bed that I DROVE MYSELF TO THE LOCAL hospital.
They’re testifying in my behalf. The triage flew toward the emergency room door upon seeing my swollen head and bloodied face by-passing those already in the waiting room they were so alarmed by my appearance. Two MRIs later I was kept three days and tested. Some of my motor skills have still not returned fully. That’s why my grammar and verb tenses will be off from time to time.
And you say people have no investment and “yawn” at the issue of gay rights?
I can prove differently.
May 19, 2008 - 03:37 PM on May 19th, 2008
62
Hate crime legislation is “ridiculous”?
Walk a mile in my shoes.
Should there be a need for it? NO. Is there.
Absolutely. I’ll hang those bastards by their nuts before I’m through. I’m one scrappy homo you see who believes our Constitution was written for ALL Americans who abide by our laws, pay taxes, and simply want to live a decent and full life.
Silly me.
May 19, 2008 - 03:39 PM on May 19th, 2008
#60
I believe there’s an “if” in the sentence you quoted of mine, no? Yes. Thought so.
May 19, 2008 - 03:41 PM on May 19th, 2008
** “if implied”. Never called a black person that word once in all my life.
Christ. You want to think of homosexuals as lesser. The arrogance.
It’s pointless trying to enlighten the unenlightenable.
May 19, 2008 - 03:44 PM on May 19th, 2008
So your anger is that the police didn’t file a hate crime report? Did they file a police report? I am assuming that they did based on the fact that you mentioned one. You don’t give us any indication of what led to the attack, but could it be that it was a random act of violence and you just happened to be a gay man attacked? I am sorry that you were attacked but I still see no reason why someone should be punished more for what happened to you as opposed to say a women that is raped or a child that is molested. All three are equally wrong and despicable acts.
You were rushed pass the others in emergency because you were the most pressing emergent, hence people don’t get numbers when they enter an emergcy room.
And no, this isn’t about religion or indoctrination or republican vs democrat.
May 19, 2008 - 03:49 PM on May 19th, 2008
66- You brought the word up Eben, not me. You chose to use the comparison, now you seem to think I am accusing you of using the word.
65- Yet you seem to think there should be special laws for gays..
Where did I say homosexuals are lesser than black people? I didn’t. What I have said repeatedly is that the struggle of the black race was far greater than that of homosexuals and that there really is no comparision to the two.
May 19, 2008 - 04:19 PM on May 19th, 2008
69-
No need to deflect by avoiding the issue Pam.
I’ve been as honest as I can possibly be about my experience and many I know in the same situation as I.
I never said one word about special laws for gays but until people like YOU and those who think there exists no homophobia you bet those laws ought to stay on the books.
You are mistkaken in your logic about the struggle for blacks being much more difficult than gays. Just imagine how reinforced the white man’s religion imposed on American blacks has been to reinforce intolerance even among people like black Americans who have suffered similarly to their gay brothers and sisters.
You keep telling SFL and me “there’s no comparison between the two” yet you don’t illustrate the basis of your thinking. Simply saying something doesn’t make it so.
Oh. And thanks for you sympathy for what I experienced at people who (it appears now to me) think very much as you do.
Do you have a pulse?
May 19, 2008 - 04:20 PM on May 19th, 2008
**at the hands of** above
May 19, 2008 - 04:24 PM on May 19th, 2008
#68
The police chief in the town where the crime occurred has been canned. Obviously some people know there’s a clear and present danger.
That said, it’s obvious to me you clearly cannot have your version of reality screwed with.
Far be it from me to enlighten you to what goes on daily in your aggression-filled world.
I’ve recounted real experiences yet you remain intransigent and utterly detached. Reminds me of the man in the Oval Office who has the blood of easily one hundred thousand people on his hands.
The Wizard never gave him a heart. There is much to genetics yet to be revealed it occurs to me.
May 19, 2008 - 06:22 PM on May 19th, 2008
70- Where did I say no homophobia exists Eben? I didn’t. You never said one word about special laws? Then please explain this:
Eben, again in this thread I am forced to repeat myself because you don’t read; you were not made to use a special drinking fountain because of your sexuality, nor were you denied access to a public school, nor did you struggle for the right to vote, you were never a slave, you could purchase a home in any neighborhood you could afford, sit anywhere you wanted in a restaurant, banks didn’t offer you a higher interest rate because of your sexuality, and the list goes on and on..You can’t get married in most states, but last time I checked, you could in the state that you live in. There is no comparison between the two situations.
So the police chief was fired..was it because of homophobia or was it that he was corrupt, incompetent and should have lost his job?
So now it is the white man’s religion that is forcing black’s to turn their backs on gays? Nope!
May 19, 2008 - 10:39 PM on May 19th, 2008
“I’ve recounted real experiences yet you remain intransigent and utterly detached. Reminds me of the man in the Oval Office who has the blood of easily one hundred thousand people on his hands.”
Oh, that’s only since the invasion, by many counts 500,000 dead children due to the economic embargo. Some folks think the total number is in the millions, maybe as much as 25 million.
Yes, there are those who would think all of this. And they are in straightjackets, or should be.
June 7, 2008 - 09:09 AM on June 7th, 2008
Toujoursntrès agréable ton blog, le design est trop jolin
bonne continuation ! amcalement