McCain ad: “Fight”
The last eight years haven’t worked very well, have they? I’ll make the next four better. Your savings, your job and your financial security are under siege. Washington is making it worse – bankrupting us with their spending.
Telling us paying higher taxes is “patriotic”?
And saying we need to “spread the wealth around”?
They refuse common sense solutions for energy independence. So every day we send billions to the Middle East.
We need a new direction and I have a plan. Your savings. We’ll rebuild them. Your investments. They’ll grow again. Energy. We’ll drill here and we’ll create a renewable energy economy. Lower taxes and less spending will protect your job and create new ones.
That’ll restore our country.
Stand up with me, let’s fight for America.
Ed:
The economic message works. McCain obviously wants to ride the “spread the wealth” redistributionism of Obama all the way to the finish line, using Obama’s populism against him. Could Joe the Plumber be the Poland of this campaign? It just might. The visceral reaction of Joe the Plumber to Obama’s bald redistributionist intentions may have finally highlighted the fact of Obama’s doctrinaire liberal policy. In a time of great economic insecurity, voters are paying close attention to these issues.
October 16, 2008 - 04:58 PM on October 16th, 2008
Speaking of McCain ads — I’m from Ohio and my cousin works with “Joe the Plumber.” I just talked to him (my cousin, not JtP) about it on the phone. Apparently Joe has been a big-time republican for years.
What do you want to bet that all of this stuff about him not knowing who he’s going to vote for is a hoax and in a week or so he shows up again to endorse McCain?
My friends and I are going to do our best to make sure that people see this coming and aren’t taken in. I’m off to post…
October 16, 2008 - 05:04 PM on October 16th, 2008
Oh man, but I didn’t know this:
http://www.reuters.com/articlePrint?articleId=USN1639355520081016
October 16, 2008 - 06:32 PM on October 16th, 2008
Who cares if it was a hoax? The answer he go was what mattered.. Spreading the wealth which is redistribution!
October 16, 2008 - 06:54 PM on October 16th, 2008
By that logic, any taxation for social programs is “redistribution” including schools, the GI Bill, etc.
October 16, 2008 - 07:22 PM on October 16th, 2008
No it isn’t. The schools, the Vet, the Police and Fire Departments provide a vital service to the community. They give whereas welfare is all take…
October 16, 2008 - 07:46 PM on October 16th, 2008
OOps! Pam gotcha, AKD!
October 16, 2008 - 08:58 PM on October 16th, 2008
How are tax breaks for working families welfare?
October 16, 2008 - 10:45 PM on October 16th, 2008
AKd, How can checks from the treasury to people who didn’t pay taxes in the first place be anything BUT welfare? Obama isn’t talking about giving working families lower tax rates, or even giving them all that they paid back. He’s talking about writing them a check paid for with someone else’s money. It would be like Pam writing Robert a check on YOUR account and calling it a tax break for Robert. You wouldn’t like that very much would you? You’d probably like it even less if Pam put a gun to your head and made YOU write the check. That is exactly what Obama is talking about.
Obama’s policies will increase inflation, unemployment, interest rates and the deficit. They did when Jimma Carta tried them 32 years ago, and guess what, the fundamental laws of economics don’t change. No matter how much you want to be a good little socialist, socialism is a failed economic system. Taking another trip down this particular memory lane isn’t something I care to do.
It only looks like a good idea to those who haven’t experienced the impact of such plans. By the time the Reagan economic plan took effect, unemployment had climbed to over 8%, inflation was over 12% and interest rates were in the upper teens/low twenties. The military was woefully short of equipment, and ammo. Even near the end of Reagan’s second term, the Army still lacked adequate kevlar helmets and body armor for all of the soldiers that were supposed to have it. Even with Reagan pushing to increase military spending, the Democratic Congress still appropriated the money in inadequate amounts to provide equipment for everyone. I know because I was the one complaining about not having body armor for my soldiers or enough ammo to train soldiers with their rifles adequately.
October 17, 2008 - 01:58 AM on October 17th, 2008
FAO beat me to the punch and nailed it. AKD if you don’t understand that giving income tax rebates to people who don’t pay income taxes isn’t welfare, then there is no point in further discussion. And Pam’s point about welfare being a completely different subject than services provided by the Gov’t is right on and totally valid. If you don’t understand that, it explains your Leftism.
FAO I remember well the post-Carter days. I was an Infantry Rifle Squad leader in the California Army National Guard then; we had severe equipment shortages. I remember going to the range to qualify with the M16 using those subcalibre devices that used 22 LR rounds instead of .223. What a joke. We might as well have saved even more money and just thrown rocks at the targets.
October 17, 2008 - 06:24 AM on October 17th, 2008
This is one more example of either dirty tricks,( Joe voted for McCain in the primary). He’s a not a soon to be business owner of a $250.00 company. He’s not a licensed plumber. He’s been sued for back taxes and his real name is Sam. One more example of the McCain people not “vetting” someone prior to letting them join their team. What kind of President would John make, the same as Bush who got us in a War on bad intel. How could CNN get all this on “Joe” and the man is already appearing in a McCain commercial and Fox news.
October 17, 2008 - 06:46 AM on October 17th, 2008
Patricia
Are you suggesting that people that vote for one party over another in a primary can not change their mind in a general election? Many Democrats in MI voted for Republicans in the MI Primary because their vote wasn’t going to be counted. Are they now Republicans?
Are you suggesting that a person must be vetted before they ask a candidate a question? The question was asked and answered..that answer scared the hell out of many people..the fact that Joe may owe back taxes is not even an issue..The fact that his real name may or may not be Sam is also not the issue.
Hell of a job by nuts on the left though..going to the wrong guys house was so..well so the way the left operates!
Stay classy!
Martin Nesbitt, the treasurer of Obama’s campaign, has tax liens. So do his companies.
October 17, 2008 - 06:46 AM on October 17th, 2008
“…the fundamental laws of economics don’t change. No matter how much you want to be a good little socialist, socialism is a failed economic system.”
The model of socialism you’re referring to, FAO, has been working great in a number of countries across Europe for years. If your knowledge of economic history wasn’t limited to Limbaugh talking points, you’d know that.
October 17, 2008 - 07:01 AM on October 17th, 2008
[...] Did you have anything to say about this Patricia? [...]
October 17, 2008 - 07:02 AM on October 17th, 2008
When all of your talking points are about “Joe the Plumber, an undecided voter who’s going to buy a company that makes &250,000 a year,” it’s a little sketchy if the guy: isn’t named Joe; isn’t a plumber; isn’t an undecided voter; and isn’t going to buy a company that makes 250,000 a year.
This has already been reported on quite a bit; I don’t think that McCain’s “Joe the Plumber” fables are going to do his campaign much good.
October 17, 2008 - 08:55 AM on October 17th, 2008
Clinton invented new definitions:
Tax Breaks for Poor = Larger Refundable Credits increasing the NEGATIVE income tax payments received by poor through Additional Child Tax Credit and Earned Income Tax Credit. Do the math if you’re single with two children, and have ZERO income, a simple lie that you have $12k self employment income (doing nothing all day) will get you a sweet government CHECK for THOUSANDS of DOLLARS during tax season. Not a refund of withholding or estimated payments you made, but a CHECK, written with funds confiscated from your hard working neighbor. You will even accrue some social security credit by paying Self Employment Tax with your neighbors cash.
Corporate Welfare = Confiscating less of a business’s profit and capital.
October 17, 2008 - 09:10 AM on October 17th, 2008
AKD, you miss the points completely. Joe is indeed your average guy with faults aplenty. So what? The real points, the ones the rest of us take, are: One – Obama blew his answer to Joe’s perfectly straightforward question. Two: Obama came to Joes home, picked Joe to ask a question and now Obama’s fellow travelers are trying to destroy Joe.
Ask a question and get destroyed. The rest of us dumbass, tax debtor, problematic, poorly educated Joes can figure that one out just fine.
October 17, 2008 - 07:57 PM on October 17th, 2008
How can McCain take Obama’s words (out of context) and equate him to Washington. McCain for over 25 years. He is Washington!
October 17, 2008 - 08:40 PM on October 17th, 2008
AKD, Socialism isn’t working in Europe. Unless you like high inflation, high unemployment, and very low home ownership. If you like living in a tiny apartment your entire life, and paying 50+% taxes, have at it. This country was founded by people who rebelled against just such a thing. YOU try learning some history. In fact, I would posit the theory that 4 of the 5 permanent members of the UN Security Council have had revolutions in the last 250 years because the elitists and bureaucrats were over taxing the middle and working classes. The American Revolution was in response to the various taxes coming out of Britain. Ever hear of the phrase “No Taxation without representation”? The French revolted because the taxation rates forced the average people into starvation while the aristocrats and their bureaucratic minions lived lavishly. Same for the Russian Revolution. The peasants were tired of among other things watching their kids starve while the elitists got fat on the fruits of their labors. And do you think Mao would’ve been so successful if the general populace of China weren’t working their collective tails off to pay taxes while starving? Of course the Japanese invasion of China certainly helped, but the revolution was still an agrarian revolt against a repressive government.
As for spreading the wealth, why is Obama’s half BROTHER living in abject poverty in Kenya on under $100 a year when Obama made over $4,000,000 last year? If Obama is so about spreading the wealth, why doesn’t HE fund a trust fund to support inner city programs in Chicago. Hell, if he put 25% of the money he earned last year alone, he could endow a program for eternity. Notice that he only wants to spread EVERYONE ELSE’S wealth.
As for Joe (it’s his middle name, grow up folks) not being a licensed plumber, and not owning the business. Ever hear of a thing called education (He’s already been in the state apprenticeship program long enough to get a license.), and one called the Small Business Administration? SBA loans can be used to purchase already established businesses (which is what he said he wanted to do) and SBA counselors could help him grow the business to the point of making over $250,000 a year. I don’t know about where you guys are, but I’d bet the plumber I use makes that in spades. Then again, they have plumbers on call 24/7/365. I would guess they also have over a dozen trucks going out on calls. They even advertise on the top rated radio station in the metro Phoenix area which is definitely NOT cheap. With the rash of copper thefts in this country, A plumber who responds at night and on weekends can charge a premium if they do a good job.
October 18, 2008 - 08:20 AM on October 18th, 2008
Wow, you really don’t know anything about global economics. Everyone lives in a tiny apartment in Europe, huh? I wonder why their quality of life is consistently ranked so much higher than it is in the United States? Why their healthcare is better? Why their citizens always say that they’d never want to live in a system like the U.S.?
One of the most impressive things about this election has been that McCain and his idiot sidekick keep shrieking about socialism, but the American people actually don’t seem to be fooled. Of course they probably realize that McCain, ruled by fear like all contemporary republicons, is as interested in growing the government and cutting freedoms as any scary socialist.
FAO, keep on fighting for Amnesty! You know that you’re doing the right thing!
October 18, 2008 - 03:54 PM on October 18th, 2008
First of all, when it comes to McCain and the other Republicans who selectively claim to be against big government (bank regulation? bad! mandatory health care for children? bad! unconstitutional wiretaps? good! big wars? good!), they all lost their right to complain about socialism when they voted for the $700 billion bailout of the financial institutions. You can’t vote for for one of the biggest US socialist actions ever undertaken, then complain about socialism. McCain also voted for it in spite of all the earmarks attached to it. He decries socialism and earmarks with his voice, but supports them with his vote – way to stick to your guns, maverick.
Second, there will be no tax cuts from either candidate. $700 billion in TAXPAYER money means they’re not going to print new money to cover it, and they’re not going to borrow more money from China and Japan to cover it – WE the taxpayers must pay for it. If you think they’re going to cover that $700 billion by lowering taxes, you need to wake up to reality and common sense.
October 18, 2008 - 03:59 PM on October 18th, 2008
Does he really need to add the line to say he approves this message, when he’s the one on camera saying it? I thought that was just something they did when the commercial was a voiceover. I’m Bob Faber and I approve this comment. (See how awkwardly stupid that is?)
October 18, 2008 - 04:12 PM on October 18th, 2008
By law he does need to do that Bob.
October 18, 2008 - 04:17 PM on October 18th, 2008
About socialism, Pam said: “The schools, the Vet, the Police and Fire Departments provide a vital service to the community.” The Vet? What about the Hospital? Helping your pets is good, but helping fellow human beings – unthinkable! If there’s mandatory health coverage for children, there are less sick kids, and less chance of your silver-spoon kids getting sick. If health care and prescription drugs are more affordable, and people are healthier, that means less chance of catching Flu or Herpes or Hepatitis from the promiscuous teenager who serves you fast food or coffee, and less missed workdays in every industry, resulting in (gasp) a more productive workforce, and your stock investments increasing more. Oh, how awful it would be if our health care system worked like Europe!
I know most of you are Republicans here, so you may not be capable of this, but try to extend your train of thought beyond your wallet sometimes, to see where things that may not benefit you directly today could actually benefit you indirectly in the future.
October 18, 2008 - 04:17 PM on October 18th, 2008
Umm MIMI,
McCain and the republicans tried to get a regulation bill passed in 05′,o Fannie/Freddie, that would have prevented this crisis, but it was that honest and open Pelosi/Reid that made sure it never happened.
Really? No tax cuts from either candidate? So they are both lying when they say they will cut the taxes?
OMG, get an education…you need it.
October 18, 2008 - 04:27 PM on October 18th, 2008
No Ted, mandatory hc for kids is not a guarantee that the children will benefit. We already have medicaid and we know that it has not proven you correct:
http://rightvoices.com/2007/05/02/the-government-only-pays-for-the-appointment-they-dont-schedule-them-for-you/
“GMA Gets It Done: Taking on Medicaid. Fighting to Treat Tooth Decay.â€The screencap shows a palpably emotional GMA co-host Chris Cuomo literally pointing his finger at the head of the federal Medicaid program. The moment came during the course of a segment this morning recounting the sad case of 12-year old Deamonte Driver, who died after infection from an abcessed tooth spread to his brain. The boy and his family were in fact covered by Medicaid, the government health care insurance program for poor people. But the boy’s mother [pictured below] had never before taken him to a dentist,”
The government pays for the visit but they don’t make the appointment for you!
As I said in another post, a doctor friend of mine retired last year, volunteers in a free clinic in the inner city. Clinic on bus route..He has a 75% no show rate..this is an internist that got his medical degree from the University of Michigan. I am thankful our healthcare system is nothing like Europes..You do kow that it is collaping don’t you?
October 18, 2008 - 05:50 PM on October 18th, 2008
OMG, maybe I do need more education! Since I’ve paid off the loans for my PhD, I don’t feel truly American without tens of thousands of dollars of debt.
Regulations for Fannie and Freddie would have helped avoid lender fraud in the real estate market. Unfortunately, that wouldn’t have fixed the opaque and unregulated credit default swap market, where more money was being traded than on all the world’s stock exchanges combined. The domino effect of that market’s failures is what really put the Fed into panic mode.
When the candidates say they “will” cut taxes in their first term, they are lying. When they say they “want to” cut taxes, that’s technically true, but doesn’t change the fact that they won’t be able to do what they want.
Before this credit crisis and bailout, tax cuts were feasible, so it’s not as if they were lying all along. But money doesn’t grow on trees, and the $700 billion came from taxpayers for a reason. If they cut taxes, here are the options to make up for that lost tax revenue:
1. They print more new money, driving the value of the dollar down. The relative cost of foreign goods and resources (which affect the prices of domestic goods) goes up as the dollar plummets, and we continue to lose our standing in the world market. Because the exchange rate is favorable for other countries, our Universities will maintain their enrollment numbers with foreign students, so they won’t lower their tuition fees, and it will become more difficult for Americans to afford a good education. Without a strong math/science educated workforce, we miss the boat on becoming a leader in alternative energy, more jobs go overseas, and the downward spiral continues.
2. They borrow more money from China and other foreign countries (foreign debt is almost 25% of our $10.3 trillion debt now), increasing the ability of those countries to influence us politically through financial threats. (And yes, they already do influence us – otherwise we’d recognize Taiwan’s democracy.) If the government didn’t step in, Morgan Stanley would belong to HSBC (Hong kong Shanghai Bank Corp) – look it up – HSBC was interested on Sept 17th, then mysteriously lost interest on the 18th. A week later, bailout – asking for plenty of money to outbid any foreign bank. See, they could let foreign countries bail us out and buy up our financial institutions, and the world and US economy would stabilize far more quickly. But when it recovered, the US would be like a minority shareholder in our own economy, making us weak. If we can recover on our own, we come out of this mess strong. Unfortunately, recovering on our own means the taxpayers bear the burden. So maybe by their second term, Obama or McCain could cut taxes, but first term? Good luck.
October 18, 2008 - 07:07 PM on October 18th, 2008
Yea, right, a PhD..please..
Regulation with F and F would have diverted this disaster:
When the bubble burst on our housing market, the financial markets started shaking..when Fannie and Freddie had to be seized on a Sunday, the world markets started collapsing..There was a lot of foreign investment in that market:
July 24, 2008 6:48 AM
http://rightvoices.com/2008/10/18/another-pelosi-lie-white-house-officials-prevented-treasury-secretary-henry-paulson-from-alerting-congress-sooner-of-the-looming-economic-crisis/
TREASURY Secretary Henry Paulson’s bailout plan for mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should be titled “The Bondholder Relief Act of 2008″: The taxpayers will be providing the relief to holders of Fannie/Freddie debt, many of whom are foreigners.
Paulson has asked Congress for a blank check from the taxpayer to pay off investors for losses already incurred and likely to be incurred in the next few years. He told Congress that, if it promises unlimited funds to backstop the lenders, Fannie and Freddie are unlikely to draw on the credit line. But the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates the most likely outcome to be a cost of $25 billion over the next two years – and more if housing deteriorates further.
McCain spoke forcefully
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/record.xpd?id=109-s20060525-16&bill=s109-190#sMonofilemx003Ammx002Fmmx002Fmmx002Fmhomemx002Fmgovtrackmx002Fmdatamx002Fmusmx002Fm109mx002Fmcrmx002Fms20060525-16.xmlElementm0m0m0m on May 25, 2006, on behalf of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005:
Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were “illusions deliberately and systematically created”by the company’s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.
The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight’s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae’s former chief executive officer, OFHEO’s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines’ compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.
The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator’s examination of the company’s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.
For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac–known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs–and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO’s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.
I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.
I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.
Each candidate has no choice but to cut taxes. The debt will grow, but they both know that if they increase any taxes right now, we will have a negative, trickle down nightmare on our hands. By cutting taxes, we have more revenue.. Raising taxes leads to smaller payrolls..