Libertarianism is what your mom taught you: behave yourself and don't hit your sister.
Dr. Kenneth Bisson

Scroll For Updates: United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger: Screw You If You Think Our Members Are Giving More Concessions…Umm “for approximately a lousy $7 billion”, We Could Buy All Three Companies

By: Pam On: Nov/16/08 - 40 Comments

That’s pretty much the message this is sending:

COLUMBUS, Ohio – Even as Detroit’s Big Three teeter on collapse, United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger said Saturday that workers will not make any more concessions and that getting the automakers back on their feet means figuring out a way to turn around the slumping economy.

“The focus has to be on the economy as a whole as opposed to a UAW contract,” Gettelfinger told reporters on a conference call, noting the labor costs now make up 8 percent to 10 percent of the cost of a vehicle.

“We have made dramatic, dramatic changes and the UAW was applauded for that,” he said.

Give me a break. 12,000 people paid 31 bucks an hour not to work?

Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.’s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working — on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony, but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits.

“We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper,” he says. “Otherwise, I’ve just sat.”

Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers and Delphi Corp. as part of an extraordinary job security agreement with the United Auto Workers union.

The jobs bank programs were the price the industry paid in the 1980s to win UAW support for controversial efforts to boost productivity through increased automation and more flexible manufacturing.

As part of its restructuring under bankruptcy, Delphi is actively pressing the union to give up the program.

With Wall Street wondering how automakers can afford to pay thousands of workers to do nothing as their market share withers, the union is likely to hear a similar message from the Big Three when their contracts with the UAW expire in 2007 — if not sooner.

Did they give up the  jobs bank programs?

To many outside the auto industry, getting rid of the so-called jobs bank — a job-security program that continues to pay union workers almost their entire salaries even if there isn’t work for them — seems like a no-brainer.

But as talks on new contracts open between the Detroit automakers and their biggest union, the United Auto Workers, it appears the jobs bank may not be a negotiating issue this time around. The automakers are focused on slashing health care costs, and the union has made it clear that job security is not something it will give up easily.

Putting GM into Chapter 11 will not put Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Mitsubishi, Volkswagen or any of the other foreign car makers, out of business.  We will still be able to buy cars..well, some will be able to buy cars, but until the credit markets open up, even getting a car loan will prove difficult for many..

Inhofe: Cancel the ‘blank check’

WASHINGTON — U.S. Sen. Jim Inhofe said Saturday that Congress was not told the truth about the bailout of the nation’s financial system and should take back what is left of the $700 billion “blank check” it gave the Bush administration.

“It is just outrageous that the American people don’t know that Congress doesn’t know how much money he (Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson) has given away to anyone,” the Oklahoma Republican told the Tulsa World.

“It could be to his friends. It could be to anybody else. We don’t know. There is no way of knowing.”

Please take the time to vote in the latest poll!

The bailout oxymoron

The amount of money Congress wants to spend on bailout loans could buy Detroit’s Big Three, and perhaps have enough left over for a German automaker or two.  The value of the stock in these companies amounts to $7 billion combined:

As of the close of business on Friday the market cap for General Motors was about $1.9 billion, Ford about 4.3 billion….Chrysler is privately held but it’s a safe bet that their FMV is less than $2 billion…probably a LOT less….so for approximately a lousy $7 billion….a rounding error for the federal budget…the government could simply BUY the entire U.S. auto “industry” — actually, of course, it’s just the U.S. nameplate manufacturers, but that’s another story — for what amounts to a pittance.

Of course, one reason Congress seems so intent on investing in these automakers is that they run their businesses much like Congress runs the federal government:

The numbers are literally absurd….Ford has $160 billion in debt!….with NEGATIVE book value of equity….GM has about $60 billion in debt…and a HUGE negative net worth on a book basis of $56 billion!….Essentially, the market is valuing the companies — well above their (negative) book values — but at what amounts to scrap value!…so $50 billion more from forced tax exactions should be thrown at them?….and that’s NOT absurd?

Take the time to read:Road to GOP redemption: Roll back the bailouts, draw a line in the sand

The Trouble With Detroit’s Case: They Lose Money On Every Car Sold, and Don’t Seem to Have Any Plan How to Change This

They’re getting their clocks cleaned (even before adjusting profits to reflect the amount of capital each business ties up to produce a dollar of cash, which would almost certainly make the Big 3 look even worse). U.S. automakers are nowhere near competitive with their Japanese rivals, even here in their home market.

Cohn goes on to say that in spite of this “remarkable progress,” the Big 3 do have some “lingering problems”, but that “[b]ankruptcy is a messy, expensive process that would likely do more for lawyers than for the automaker, which has already taken the most obvious steps toward efficiency.”

This story – look, we now see how foolish we’ve been, and finally have our act together; with just a little more time we’ll be world-beaters again – has been sold by Detroit to journalists many times over the past 20 years. Here’s the New York Times in 1992, making almost the exact same argument as Cohn makes: “Ford and Chrysler have increased the efficiency of their factories and workers so much in recent years that their basic cost of producing a car is now less than that of their Japanese rivals, according to a study published today.” Here’s Fortune in that same year saying that “For the first time in a decade, the U.S. auto industry has a genuine chance to grasp the lead from its Japanese competition. Ford and Chrysler are operating at worldclass efficiency, and General Motors has taken on a new sense of urgency with seismic shakeups at the top.”  This kind of coverage continued almost into the current crisis – here’s Fortune as recently as 2004 saying “GM Gets Its Act Together. Finally. How America’s No. 1 car company changed its ways and started looking like … Toyota.”

What can you do to help?

Take action: Contact the Treasury Secretary. Demand accountability. Where is your money?

Department of the Treasury
1500 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, D.C. 20220

Telephone: 202-622-2000
Fax: 202-622-6415

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Posted on: November 16, 2008 |

Posted in: Barack Obama, Democrats, Economy, Elections, General Politics, Harry Reid, Jobs, Nancy Pelosi, National News, National News, Politicians, Presidential Election '08, Unions, Universal Healthcare

40 Responses to “Scroll For Updates: United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger: Screw You If You Think Our Members Are Giving More Concessions…Umm “for approximately a lousy $7 billion”, We Could Buy All Three Companies”

  1. Zelda
    November 16, 2008 - 06:37 PM on November 16th, 2008

    These unions are doomed…
     
    But hey… you guys were right… A slight increase in fuel efficiency standards would have ruined the American Auto industry. Good thing it never passed. Thanks for your hard work.

     

     

  2. Pam
    November 16, 2008 - 06:49 PM on November 16th, 2008

    Zelda, the argument was about changing fuel efficiency standards to become effective within a 2 year period, which I said was not feasible, due to contracts with suppliers, tooling, etc…There is no reason that the auto suppliers didn’t take it upon themselves to keep up with the foreign markets on fuel efficiency standards, and there is no reason that we need to pay to modernize their plants.. They knew that the alternative fuel autos were in the works, and they chose not to get involved..They became fat and happy…

  3. Robert
    November 17, 2008 - 01:42 AM on November 17th, 2008

    I think we should give Ron Gettelfinger the MiddleFinger: NO bailout, let GM go to bankruptcy. Then it can restructure to a more competitive model.

  4. Linda
    November 17, 2008 - 08:32 AM on November 17th, 2008

    Are you kidding me- this guy needs a grip on reality! Any other business would have no choice but to re negotiate and file bankruptcy- why are the big 3 any different. Run your business like everyone else in America has to!  

  5. Patricia Arnold/Be half of Larry Arnold
    November 17, 2008 - 09:13 AM on November 17th, 2008

    Every time I read how people bash the UAW and the Big three, or I should say the Big two.  It makes me sick to my stomach.

    My husband put 43 years at Pontiac Metal Fabrication Center in Michigan.  He was 66 years old when he had a massive heart attack.  He retired January 1, 2007 and collected 22 pension checks and social security checks.  He had worked hard for GM and was treated fairly.  He never complained about going into work every day.  He never took vacation time off, he would work and collect his vacation pay at the end of the year.  People just do not understand what these guys like my husband stood up for to protect these jobs and how employees are treated on the job.  Are we just going to give that all up in order to go backwards to equalize the economy?  It is kind of hard to do that, beings that some people had it better than most in working for certain jobs in these plants.  Instead of bashing these guys, give them the credit they deserve as well as the UAW and the Auto companies, they have worked hard for so many families and a lot of people are too stupid and dumb to see what they stand for.  Maybe it is because of the “Brain Fog” that they sustain for being ignorant to the facts in our economy, like filling for personal bankruptcy yourself when you carry a loan for one of the Big three autos you have purchased.  Take a look at your own finance and then maybe you have the right to judge the Automakers and the UAW.

  6. Pam
    November 17, 2008 - 09:44 AM on November 17th, 2008

    Give me a break Patricia! 

    “People just do not understand what these guys like my husband stood up for to protect these jobs and how employees are treated on the job.”

    You act as if no one has ever left there to tell the story, or as if no one has relatives that also worked for the company…My husbands Aunt work in a Lansing plant for 30 years and retired in the 80’s..I worked as a supplier to the automotive industry..These line jobs can be done by anyone..they are repetitive and not labor intensive..everything is automated..A worker has their job to do and that’s that..they run out of parts, they sit on their ass and wait for the hi-lo to bring them more…

    The UAW has itself to blame for this..they bargained themselves into this mess.  They failed to realize that they were bargaining the company right into bankruptcy, which is where it belongs..put it into receivership, restructure the company and see whats left….

    I didn’t see you on the boards when American Axle was on strike this past spring, and because of it, may suppliers went belly up…..Why don’t you set up a support network with some of those survivors…

  7. Gale Bickle
    November 17, 2008 - 09:46 AM on November 17th, 2008

    Patricia

    Just because your husband worked hard for 44 years is not a good reason for ME to havbe to continue to pay his fat pension his union negotiated 20 years ago.  Times have changed and the retirees that are sitting like fat cats with full medical pensions as well as a fat check need to go out and get a job and start paying their own way.  I have worked hard for 30 years myself to make sure I can afford to retire.  When I do I am going to have a hard enough time paying my own medical let alone yours.

    Screw the big 3  If they can’t make concessions then let them go belly up.  Japan makes a better car anyway.

  8. Pam
    November 17, 2008 - 10:14 AM on November 17th, 2008

    P.S. Patricia, let me say that I am sorry for the fact that your husband suffered a heart attack..I take it based on the way you wrote this, that he passed away, and if so I am sorry for your loss.

  9. MishMashZone » No Bailout For Auto Industry
    November 17, 2008 - 04:14 PM on November 17th, 2008

    [...] to boost productivity through increased automation and more flexible manufacturing.   Read Right Voices as Pam explains how this job bank [...]

  10. Bill Harmon
    November 17, 2008 - 06:52 PM on November 17th, 2008

    Thought I would chime in on this. My Grandpa retired from GM closing in on 20 years ago, and I’m now a contractor to GM in the IT. The union is not the only reason GM is losing money hand over fist.  GM has a propensity for wasting money. We’ve presented two options, where each would save GM ~$250,000 per plant, a year. One was implemented at our plant, but the other wasn’t.  Neither was implemented outside of our plant because it was not the GM direction. What saving half a million a year per plant, over roughly 30 plants, 15 million a year, isn’t in the GM direction?
    That alone would cover Wagoner’s annual bonus J
    Mordtech.wordpress.com

  11. Pam
    November 17, 2008 - 07:26 PM on November 17th, 2008

    I am not saying that GM doesn’t waste money, I am sure they do..There must be more to the story of the cost savings though…

  12. Rosemary's Thoughts
    November 18, 2008 - 11:08 AM on November 18th, 2008

    Terps Without Cover…How Does This Work?…

    I was reading Uncle Jimbo’s post over at Blackfive.net, and I was utterly shocked to find that someone in the brass dept. has e-mailed his edict to the underlings overseas that no interpreters are allowed to wear scarves over their head or face…

  13. Roollitrepe
    November 18, 2008 - 09:07 PM on November 18th, 2008

    As the old cock crows, so does the young :)

  14. » Scroll For Updates: United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger … Joe Biden On Best Political Blogs: News And Info On Joe Biden
    November 19, 2008 - 02:32 AM on November 19th, 2008

    [...] Workers President Ron Gettelfinger … Posted in November 17th, 2008 by in Uncategorized Scroll For Updates: United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger … GM has about $60 billion in debt…and a HUGE negative net worth on a book basis of $56 [...]

  15. big wall clocks | Digg hot tags
    November 19, 2008 - 05:16 PM on November 19th, 2008

    [...] Vote Scroll For Updates: United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger: Screw … [...]

  16. TutusedaFet
    November 20, 2008 - 09:34 AM on November 20th, 2008

    Reason why is great to be a gay :P
    You don’t have to shave below your neck. It was joke :)

  17. Greg R
    November 20, 2008 - 04:14 PM on November 20th, 2008

    Let the sorry S.O.B. fail they have been making big bucks for years. The union sucks, if my company ever went union I would quit! The big three are loosing money becuase of the union. Let the sorry S.O.B. fail I think it would be great!!!

  18. petepenguin
    November 21, 2008 - 10:24 AM on November 21st, 2008

    Just read this.

     

    UAW Eyes Give-Backs to Help Big 3 Bailout
    Posted 2 hours, 26 minutes ago in Business 

    (Newser) – The United Auto Workers appears to be easing off its “no more cuts” stance. The union is negotiating a swath of concessions it hopes will convince Congress to loan money to the Big Three, starting with the elimination of its controversial jobs bank, the Detroit Free Press reports. The bank pays laid-off workers, sometimes for years after their dismissal.
    The UAW’s willingness to sacrifice comes after congressional leaders roundly rejected automakers’ pitch for a $25 billion rescue yesterday, panning the executives’ performances. “I was, in some ways, embarrassed for them,” said one Tennessee Republican. “They had no plan.” Michigan’s Carl Levin and Debbie Stabenow crafted a compromise they believed could pass, but Democratic leadership insisted automakers devise a plausible rebound scenario first.


    Source Detroit Free Press

    Do you think they got the message? Maybe,a loan is possible yet,but I don’t know about a bailout.Let us see what management comes up with.

  19. Gaspare Tommaso
    November 30, 2008 - 06:35 PM on November 30th, 2008

    I am concerned about the “maquiladoring”*  of the US manufacturing industry by foreign companies, with particular focus on the auto industry?  It seems that some politicians and journalists feel that helping foreign companies open factories in the US and take all the profits back to their countries is good for this country. Weakening/crippling our auto industry by allowing it to go bankrupt WILL be THE GREATEST OPENING  for expansion of foreign car manufacturing that this country has ever seen. Supporters of bankruptcy do not see the need to fix our companies that need help, so that they become more competitive and their managements more in line with the compensation given by their foreign competitors.
     
    Gaspare Tommaso
     
    *maquiladora

  20. Jay
    December 6, 2008 - 07:34 PM on December 6th, 2008

    In order for the “big negative 3″ to save some money, the following thoughts come to mind:

    Stop all racing support that involves anything except 4 Cyl and/or alternatives.

    Sell some property I am sure the own around the world: old factory sites, convention/vacation spots for the execs.

    Shut down all research, development and production of V-8 engines.  Utilize parts in stock to build a few work trucks that are needed for small business vehicles (like pickups and panel trucks).  Each make should be limited to three models that contain a V-8.

    I also think the GAO should have a look at the finances of these companies.  I am sure they hired the best accountants to hide as much as possible.

    Just some thoughts

  21. Mike Westfall
    December 7, 2008 - 03:49 PM on December 7th, 2008

     
     
    UAW PRESIDENT RON GETTELFINGER’S DESTRUCTION OF WALTER REUTHER’S UNION
     
     
    By Mike Westfall
     
     
    Past UAW President and founding father, Walter Reuther, was a strong principled labor leader of vision. Walter had a backbone and refused to become a corporate puppet. Walter knew that if you were to get respect that you had to demand it. The companies and nation thrived, the middle class expanded and the world respected autoworkers and copied the responsible contracts resulting from Walters’s tenure. Walter never apologized for his workers making a decent wage, never betrayed his retirees and always said that you could tell the quality of a union leadership by how they treated their defenseless retirees.
     
    In the six short years since UAW President Ron Gettelfinger has taken office, the nation has come to loath blue-collar autoworkers.  Gettelfinger has been apologizing for and concessioning away workers’ wages, pensions and benefits ever since he took office. Gettelfinger and his colleagues at Solidarity House will soon retiree on their lucrative, secure and healthcare protected pensions. Gettelfinger’s UAW workers and retirees however will never recover from the damage these people have done to their working conditions, incomes and retirements.
     
    In the auto loan hearings the insulated, smiling, anti-union, photo opt. politicians and their biased and naive witnesses from academia land, none of whom has ever spent a minute slaving on an assembly line, falsely suggested that the fault of the auto industries’ woes were due primarily to union workers and retirees.
     
    The politicians are wrong, the befuddled prejudiced witnesses are wrong and what they said is bogus. The indisputable facts are that 90% of the costs of building an automobile are “not” worker related. The particulars are that Gettelfinger’s unending concessions have not made and “will never make a difference” because workers and retirees were never the problem.
     
    Auto executives have been able to snooker, backslap and dance Gettelfinger to the edge of the cliff and he pushed his trusting membership off that lethal overhang because he simply couldn’t stop saying yes to the companies when he should have been saying no.
     
    Many of the politicians involved in the loan proceedings were campaigning for healthcare in the recent presidential election and were supported by a majority of autoworkers. Now these same hypocritical double-talking politicians are using their pulpits to ridicule America’s autoworkers and deceitfully crush the auto retirees by calling them unfortunate legacy costs as they push for the theft of their healthcare.
     
    Instead of using the national spotlight to tell the world that retirees and workers have been a hard working and committed workforce who have given their labor, accumulated experience, knowledge, wisdom, and skills to advance these American based multi-national companies and build the American dream for our entire nation, Gettelfinger has remained painfully silent.
     
    Gettelfinger’s weakness for concessions has forced autoworkers to suffer with condemnation, substandard unfair wage configurations and sliced protective work rules. These union officials have consciously refused to keep pension buying power of older retirees in line with inflation. Divorcing himself from his struggling retirees, Gettelfinger has reduced these retirees to collective beggars.
     
    In the auto industry it is well known that the factories are unhealthy places to work. In many manufacturing plants the workers’ life expectancy is less then the normal life expectancy because of the exposure to strong carcinogens and multiple other workplace chemicals and hazards unique to the building of automobiles. Plants are known to have enormous long-term health problems including cancer that come from worker exposure over the decades of labor. These diseases many times don’t surface until workers retire. Past UAW leaders knew this and negotiated hard won retirements and health care benefits to protect retirees because of it. Corporations have always had pipe dreams of gullible union officials who would allow them to legally walk away from their full healthcare responsibilities. Never until Ron Gettelfinger would past UAW administrations ever consider it. It was unthinkable because Healthcare is a life and death benefit for retirees.
     
    Gettelfinger never mentions the fact that retiree healthcare benefits was negotiated and paid for by retirees during their working years in lieu of wages.
    Retirees own these benefits. That is why Gettelfinger and company has had to go to court to get at them. As the retirees paid for these benefits during their working years, their union officials refused to vest them and spent the retiree healthcare funds elsewhere.
    Gettelfinger has betrayed the union retirement promise. He has not only refused to negotiate basic pension increases for older retirees to keep up with rising inflation, but also went to court to obtain the legal right to concession away the little income that they do get.
     
    The elderly UAW retirees lacked the options for building their own pensions available to today’s workers. Their entire wherewithal is dependent on the fixed retirement promises made to them at the time of retirement. Simply put, elderly UAW retirees cannot afford to pay for healthcare. Stealing the health care of these already besieged elderly retirees, whose meager pensions have lagged far behind inflation and are much smaller than more recent retirees, would be to repay these needy retirees with a potential catastrophic health related death sentence.
     
    It now is indisputable that Gettelfinger has been running the UAW as a company union and has used his power and influence against those he should be representing to race the clock back 70 years to evaporate all the gains. His tenure has been both a C.E.O.’s dream and a union members nightmare. He has volunteered and sacrificed member’s bedrock pensions, jobs, health care, benefits, wages, work rules, and worker solidarity. He has become a corporate cheerleader  “expecting continual worker sacrifices” and become the representative and facilitator for job destroying corporate restructuring. Gettelfinger has agreed to ongoing local “ New Operating Agreements” that evaporate long-standing job protections and allowed the companies to decimate wages by replacing existing workers with new workers at half the wages.
     
    The ironic thing about this is that none of it had to happen. It hasn’t helped and it won’t help. For shockingly cooperating in unreasonable ways with the corporate executives who have shamefully used him, for refusing to defend UAW members, for taking struggling UAW retirees to court in order to negotiate away their healthcare benefits, for ignoring the needs of workers and their families, for breaking sacred solidarity and shamefully redefining the term union, the wretched record of Gettelfinger and his colleagues, who have betrayed the very premise of what they were elected to do, will be recorded in labor history. That will be their dishonorable testament and legacy. The assault against working Americans by the very powers that should be protecting them is a betrayal and a cultural tragedy. History will hold them accountable.
     
    Mike Westfall
     
    westfallpapers@yahoo.com
     
     Relative historical links…
     
    UAW OFFICIALS BETRAY AUTO WORKERS [2007]…
    http://unionreview.com/insights-analysis-uaw-betrays-autoworkers
     
    VICTOR REUTHER SPEECH 50TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE UAW FLINT RALLY [1987]…
     http://westfallmike.tripod.com/Page12.htm
     
    MIKE WESTFALL SPEECH 50TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE UAW FLINT RALLY [1987]…
    http://westfallmike.tripod.com/Page11.htm
     
     HISTORIC UAW LEADER SPEAKS OUT FOR RETIREES AND WORKERS [2007]…
    http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2007/08/11/interview-with-whitey-hale/ 
      
    EASTERN ECONOMIC MANUFACTURING SPEECH [1985] … 
     http://westfallmike.tripod.com/Page14.htm
     
     ROGER & ME –FLINT CONTROVERSY [1990]…
    http://westfallmike.tripod.com/Page10.htm
         
    ARCHIVES AND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION [1976-2008]… 
     
    http://www.umflint.edu/library/archives/westfall.htm
      
    http://michaelwestfall.tripod.com/id50.html
     
    http://westfallmike.tripod.com/ 
     

  22. Fred Dawes
    December 19, 2008 - 12:55 AM on December 19th, 2008

    Its all BS But people live on BS.

  23. Gaspare Tommaso
    December 19, 2008 - 07:11 AM on December 19th, 2008

    Hundreds of billions for financials. What is a republican?  You fill in the rest

  24. Jim Breason
    December 19, 2008 - 10:55 AM on December 19th, 2008

    All you right wing republicans need to wake up.You’ve been slinging your BS for years.You do live in the USA,not in Japan or Taiwan or Germany, maybe you should.The USA auto workers are not perfect,but neither is any other segment.I see the red in just about ever sector of our economy.When the Japanese companys start to bleed red,which they will,then you’ll see how loyal and patriot they are! What a good time that will be!!

  25. Pam
    December 19, 2008 - 11:27 AM on December 19th, 2008

    Jim, you need to get an education..This isn’t just Republicans that are balking at the bailout..in fact, the last poll had it over 63% of Americans..

    The domestic auto industry has been hemorrhaging for years..I worked with the domestic auto makers and they are anything but efficient..Our components shipped to Mexico and Canada..because the auto makers couldn’t afford the domestic labor..The foreign makers will not die off because they run efficient plants.

    Boycott GM and any products made by UAW workers.

  26. Pete Massey
    December 19, 2008 - 01:07 PM on December 19th, 2008

    Here is the bottom line on the UAW and Auto Loan (Bailout), Mr. Gettelfinger: If you want to have goverment help then you play by their rules because it is their game (their bat and ball or money).  Thew UAW does not run this country and they can not hold up this country because they want.  If the UAW and Mr. Gettelfinger wants to sign for the mony and be responsible for the payback in the time limit specified then thay might have a reason to identifiy that the UAW members will not give up any bennies.  Up then shut up and live with or without it it is your jobs

  27. Jim Breason
    December 20, 2008 - 02:54 PM on December 20th, 2008

    The foreign 3 Have received tax break upon tax break to come here.These companies have had everything going there way for 30+years-you are the one who needs to get an education.I remember when honda,toyota and datsun were IMPORTED and sold for less here than it cost for them to build that junk over there!Now people,who were either too young to remember or don’t want to,think it’s ok for the US auto industry to go out of business!If the playing field had been fair in the 70s we wouldn’t be discussing this today!!

  28. Pam
    December 21, 2008 - 12:32 PM on December 21st, 2008

    At the time the foreign car companies were getting their tax breaks, the domestic auto companies were getting tax breaks and subsidies..You are woefully ignorant on the subject..It was done in the name of making it fair for the domestic automakers! It is alright for our big three to go out of business because they can not make a profit and if you can’t make a profit, you go out of business..They did it to themselves..F the UAW…

  29. Fred Dawes
    December 21, 2008 - 03:38 PM on December 21st, 2008

    PAM  is right no point in going into this BS

  30. Jim Breason
    December 21, 2008 - 05:54 PM on December 21st, 2008

    Yes there is a point and it is this,if we don’t learn from the past then we have no future.It’s very simple.Anyone that has worked on assemby line for 30+ years knows that the BS that people put out is just that. If you think that the foreign owners
    didn’t get huge tax breaks to build plants here your nuts.As far as GM,Ford and Chrysler getting tax breaks-they probably should have gotten a lot more!Like the protectionism that is rampant in other countries,how many GM,Ford or Chrysler products have every been sold in foreign countries?Very few-why because of protectionism.-OH darn I forgot the US Auto industry have produce good cars-yeah right!!

  31. Jim Breason
    December 21, 2008 - 06:10 PM on December 21st, 2008

    Toyota,Honda,Nissan,Hyndai,suzuki,mitsubishi,vw and others ARE
    foreign companies.They are owned entirely by Japanese,German companies or govenments.Those are the facts,no matter how you want to look at it.They have NO allegiance to the US.World War 1 and world war 2 showed we must have US companies capable of building military trucks,tanks and other vehicles.WE cannot let the US auto industry go out of business-There is NO choice we must maintain a US automotive industry.

  32. Gaspare Tommaso
    December 21, 2008 - 07:05 PM on December 21st, 2008

    “My friends” as I recollect, the loan was defeated in Congress by the republicans; it was not defeated in  a “poll”. A poll is worth the paper it’s written on. As for the wonderful foreign auto makers making such wonderful cars here, it is worth noting that the wonderful profits made through the sweat of American labor makes a wonderful journey right out of this country to the pockets of foreigners. There is nothing wrong with that if we were playing in a level playing field. Is it level? 

  33. Pam
    December 21, 2008 - 08:48 PM on December 21st, 2008

    No it is not a level playing field. The market should be opened for more competition. Those Americans sweating to assure the profit are earning paychecks that are staying in their communities. The foreign car companies set up shops throughout the country and are employing American workers…They just don’t employ UAW workers..F the UAW!

  34. Fred Dawes
    December 21, 2008 - 10:50 PM on December 21st, 2008

    All of this will mean nothing soon the system guys want the USA Dead, are any of you listening to what is being talked about? or are you guys so stupid that you just don’t get the fact we are now in a collapse of are system? the UAW Will disappear with most of us following, we are Rome guys!

  35. Fred Dawes
    December 22, 2008 - 03:57 PM on December 22nd, 2008

    Its not the workers its the CEO’S Who make the money why do you hate Americans? the workers work to make billions and billions and the money is at the top.
     the political pigs want you to hate other Americans the foreign pigs who own a hell of alot of the big three want you to think that the little guy is living well and its all the political doings of that little guy who is using you and hell people $31.oo per hr is nothing any-more it isn’t the 1980’s see it for what it is total BS from the top political and race oligarch’s And understand the workers you help to-do-in will be you next  one year from now.

    its not the workers its the top bitchs in both government and so called political manufacturing.

  36. Gaspare Tommaso
    December 26, 2008 - 04:16 PM on December 26th, 2008

    International trade is a form of war. In Napoleonic times, England subsidized exports to the continent and forbade all imports so as to weaken manufacturing in the continent and strengthen manufacturing in England. Today, Japan has gone a step further by assisting its auto industry to build factories here. A new factory has new workers with no pension or legacy costs, and, in their case, no unions. It starts with a much lower cost basis, and quickly sends the native industry into bankruptcy. It also sends the profits from the sweat of labor to the foreign country. It lowers the standard of living in the host country by sucking its wealth. It eventually reduces the host country to a colony through its parasitic relationship.

  37. Fred Dawes
    December 28, 2008 - 05:03 PM on December 28th, 2008

    Yes Gaspare Tommason understands the real world thank you. but our boys also own almost 509 percent of japans industry and 49 percent of japans auto factories that is what most people just don’t get.

  38. Fred Dawes
    December 28, 2008 - 05:05 PM on December 28th, 2008

    I am mad us hell people just don’t get what is about to happen the workers like you will get the shit.

  39. Christina
    February 18, 2009 - 12:59 PM on February 18th, 2009

    I work in a Metal Stamping Facility and I DO NOT sit around waiting for work to do.  The majority of the time, I have a job to do. If the line is down, you don’t have to sit down! It’s called having a good work ethic. That is the trouble with people, they just want to do the minimum required. You see it everywhere, not just at GM. You only hear about it relating to GM because someone wants to boast that they don’t have to work hard etc. Do those people try to find a job to do? Ask what else needs to be done? Probably not.  Back to the subject of my job- my job is not automated. I pick up heavy, oily, and  awkward shaped metal parts and pack them for shipment.  These parts are not easy for EVERYONE to handle. When I go home from work , I smell like I have been rolling around in transmission fluid. My clothes and coat stink. The smell lingers in my hair and Yes- I shower every day after work. The smell and the conditions of working in a factory are not pleasant. Most factory jobs are not pleasant. If you work in a factory right now, can you honestly tell me that don’t want better working conditions? Do you want to make a better living?  Do you want your children to be able to go to college someday?  Would you like to move to a better neighborhood/school district?  If your company wanted to increase your salary to $10 more an hour, would you not want that?  Of course you would. The Union was established to help the working class, not hurt business. If a business does not have a union, it can do whatever it wishes to do. The Union is just our voice and security.
    Gm has made financial mistakes-no doubt about it. My salary only accounts for 10% or less of the cost of a vehicle. Logically, something needs to be done about overhead costs.  Benefits have been cut and I think the higher management people should takes cuts that hurt them.  They make more in a year than thousands of laborers combined make.  How do they sleep at night knowing that their salary is safe, while they are eliminating thousands of jobs?  THESE JOB LOSES WILL EFFECT MORE OF YOU THAN YOU REALIZE.  If you work in a town with one of these plants that are closing, your job could also be lost or negatively affected due to lose of your customer base.  The market value of your home will decrease . Businesses will close. In my town, we are the only major manufacturing employer. If my plant closes, this will be a ghost town. We are the local economy. We shop here, eat here and live here.  We support our schools, United Way and other charities.  Businesses have already closed in this area. I hope more do not follow.
     The amount of people who complain about the salary GM workers make boggles my mind. I believe in being supportive and happy for other people in their good fortune.  When a friend of mine moved into a higher paying job, I was happy for her and wished I could do the same thing. I did not complain because she made more money. Eventually I was also able to change jobs and was hired by GM. (Which was a wonderful opportunity for which I am extremely greatful) .  I believe that the middle class needs salary increases and benefit improvements. Everyone needs to have financial security.  GM is asking for LOANS, they fully intend to pay them back–so why do you think you are paying for GM’s mistakes and that I should lose my job, my benefits and my financial security?  Hardships were endured by other Union members to secure these things for me.   I have worked hard all my life. I save and do what I am supposed to do as a responsible adult.  I do not deserve hatred simply because I work at GM.  These attitudes have gotten worse because of the economic funding that GM is asking for, but the attitudes have always been there.  No, I do not have a super, easy no stress job. My health benefits will be needed when I retire, beause a large portion of the retirees become sick after retiring due to working in this environment.  If my insurance is paid my GM, the medicare system isn’t being used. GM could well afford all of our benefits in years past and everyone still thought we made too much.  If the economy was doing good, and GM lowered our hourly wage they would not LOWER the price of a vehicle.  Try to change where you are in your attitudes, we are people trying to improve our families way of life, not effect your way of life at all.  As I said before, if I made less money, GM would not lower the cost of their vehicles.   What I make for a salary now, is close to what my husband and I made together. A lot of employees at GM only have one working family member, therefore,  they may not make as much as you do if you have 2 incomes. It just allows them to have a traditional family like the old days-where mom stays home to take care of the kids and house. 
    God Bless

  40. Pam
    February 18, 2009 - 05:31 PM on February 18th, 2009

    Christina,

    Your comment is all over the place..Let me add my two cents here:

    Are you being forced to work in the smelly factory? If not, who the hell cares what you smell like at the end of the day? You chose the work.

    Where did you get the idea that GM’s insurance takes the place of Medicare? What GM’s insurance doesn’t cover, Medicare does. GM employees get medicare coverage just as a retiree of KMart.
    No GM could not afford your insurance, and it finally caught up to them.

    You are over paid for the work you do. There are/were many stamping plants across this country that employed non union labor and that labor was not paid what a GM employee was. Your plants are automated. The machine operator/ line operator does not do the job of a material handler. All materials are brought to you and if you run out of material, you are not allowed to just go get your own.

    GM is taking money as political payback. These are not loans. They couldn’t pay their debt before the first check was issued. When I see the UAW investing in GM stock, I will reconsider my feelings, but even the UAW isn’t that stupid. The unions were started to protect the worker because we had no labor laws to protect them. We have labor laws on the books and there is no need for any union. I will not shed a tear when the union collapses and you and your co-workers are out of jobs. The unions are destroying the businesses. It is time for GM and Chrysler to file for bankruptcy protection..All we are doing is putting off the inevitable.

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